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Rick Peterson Deathwatch

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 02 2008 08:12 AM

Adam Rubin in today's Snooze suggests he was in hotter water than Willie near the end of last year, might have to take the fall for Heilman and Perez, and that the org is "loaded" with good potential replacements including "rising star" Ricky Bones in AA; Dan Warthen in AAA; and longtime org guys Neimann and Waits.

AG/DC May 02 2008 08:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2008 08:31 AM

I'm at that point that I'd rather see Peterson replace Willie than get fired himself. But I wonder how much of the idea of banking on good arms over pitchability is either somebody's attitude that Peterson can (or should be able to) teach anybody to pitch, or Peterson's attitude himself.

metirish May 02 2008 08:19 AM

I like Peterson but really what do I know about weather he's doing a great job or he stinks or if the players like him or not , I suppose it's his turn or something. Ricky Bones is a great name and deserves to be in the bigs.

smg58 May 02 2008 09:02 AM

Last year's pitching woes, at least in the pen, had to do with a few guys being overworked and a few guys just not being all that good. As for the rotation, Glavine is an over-40 pitcher who ran out of gas at the wrong time, the injury risks with Pedro were well documented before he got here, nobody would have looked at Maine's full season as a disappointment before the year started, Perez and El Duque were better for the Mets than they had been for their previous teams (at least recently in Ollie's case), Pelfrey's major-league readiness was badly overestimated but that may or may not have had anything to do with Peterson, and there was no reason to expect anything from the other starters. Unless Peterson convinced Minaya that Heath Bell, Brian Bannister, and Matt Lindstrom wouldn't amount to anything, I don't see a reason to blame Peterson for last year. Relief pitchers can and do go bad quickly all the time, on every team. That doesn't mean that Heilman's season is unsalvageable (or Sosa's for that matter), but these things do happen, and Heilman and Sosa have been and continue to be used often. Now perhaps Peterson told Randolph to keep sending them out there because their arms could take it, but otherwise, it's way too early to pass any sort of judgment his handling of the arms this year. As for Ollie, under Peterson's watch he's gone from being a total wreck to being maddeningly inconsistent. Obviously we're rooting for more than that, but was it really that easy to get even that much from Perez?

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 02 2008 09:12 AM

I basically agree with smg here; but I sorta see the Mets as deeply invested in making the whole Randolph-Omar thing work, and if that means whacking everybody on up until the top they'll do it, I think. The thing with Peterson is that he precedes Willie and Omar: I can't imagine either would choose RP as their guy if they were given a choice to start fresh, and as fun as Peterson is to have quoted and interviewed and stuff, it's not like he cannot be thrown out and replaced. I don't really know anymore how committed the org is to the "CEO of pitching" strategy they'd discussed back in the Art Howe Era. I also suspect that maybe Peterson had a far-off purpose as an attraction for the Oakland Big 3, but that never came to be. I can't imagine Edgy's suggestion they make Peterson the manager would even be considered.

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2008 09:17 AM

No, I don't see him as a manager at all. (Also, there's not much precedent for pitching coaches becoming managers. Roger Craig did it, I think. And maybe Bud Black? It's pretty rare, though.) I'd keep Peterson. I don't know who you'd get who would be better. I'd also be inclined to keep Omar for a while longer. He's made some bad moves, to be sure, but he's put together a good team. (Although I'm a bit intrigued by the guy who was just cut loose from the Reds.)

AG/DC May 02 2008 09:26 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2008 09:47 AM

There's a lot of precedent for pitchers making successful managers --- Tommy Lasorda, Walter Johnson, Bob Lemon. It's just that generation after generation gets locked into the idea that middle infielders and catchers are the only ones on the managerial track. I imagine research would show the population of pitcher-managers no less successful than that of hitter-managers --- only far smaller. That said, I don't see that scenario as really possible either. And if fans don't like Willie's restraint, they'd go nuts with Peterson's zen detachment. It'd be like LaRussa without the track record. A sinking ship plus a manager on ludes does not a happy fan base make. I just personally think he's shown me more than Willie. Could you imagine the internet blowback if Peterson got replaced by Dennis Martinez or another guy whose name ended in Z?

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2008 09:33 AM

Oh, I know that there have been pitchers who became managers. But it's the promotion from pitching coach to manager that seems to rarely happen. (Not that it can't; I just wanted to point out the rarity.) And speaking of pitching coaches, during his playing career, I never would have pegged Roger McDowell as a future pitching coach. (I imagine he's no longer doing that hotfoot thing?)

metirish May 02 2008 09:42 AM

I used to like Dave Wallace but I think he's working with Boston .

DocTee May 02 2008 09:56 AM

I could see Orel Hershiser replacing Peterson. If Felipe Alou were any younger, there's no doubt in my mind that Omar would've replaced Willie with him a looooong time ago.

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2008 09:57 AM

DocTee wrote: I could see Orel Hershiser replacing Peterson. THAT would be interesting. What's Orel doing now? I remember he was in the broadcast booth for a nationally televised game that I watched last year. (The one where he criticized John Maine's intensity.)

DocTee May 02 2008 10:03 AM

Orel's a talking head for ESPN, but I think he's ticketed for a return to the field in some capacity (pitching coach, manager, GM).

AG/DC May 02 2008 10:12 AM

It'd burn Gary Carter up if the Mets hired another milky-white squeaky clean Christian for their coaching staff after bypassing him, especially one of his old Dodger praying buddies. Let's do it!

sharpie May 02 2008 10:26 AM

Hershiser used to do a commercial for a brand of soap (forget which) where he said "I shower five, six, sometimes seven times a day." I'm guessing: he gets up, takes a shower drives to the ballpark, takes a shower before changing into pre-game duds does his pre-game routine, takes a shower after the game, takes a shower goes home, takes a shower before bed. Those are five. Not sure where he fits in six and seven. Six could be on the nights he has sex with Mrs. Hershiser I suppose but I'm not sure about seven. As to whether he'd be a good manager, maybe if he didn't spend so much time in the shower.

Frayed Knot May 02 2008 10:36 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2008 10:37 AM

] ... Unless Peterson convinced Minaya that Heath Bell, Brian Bannister, and Matt Lindstrom wouldn't amount to anything, I don't see a reason to blame Peterson for last year. Bell was one of the two guys (JW Seo is the other) where it's been pretty much public knowledge that they butted heads with Peterson and maybe would have been better pitchers with someone else as their mentor. I actually asked Rubin about Peterson's status within the club on a radio talk show a couple years back during his initial contract here (ie. before he re-upped). Specifically I was curious about what was mentioned above: whether he was going to be kept seeing as how he pre-dated both the Omar & Willie eras. His answer was that in the first year of deal he would have bet any amount that Peterson was a goner after (if not before) the deal was up, but that by year 2 going into 3 (approx when we were talking) the anti-Rick clan had either left, faded away in influence, or just plain changed their minds - IOW, no one left to point fingers while yelling 'KAZMIR' just to cover his own ass. Also that while Rick and Willie come at things from different angles (numbers vs "feel") and probably wouldn't pick each other of the top of the heap if given free choice, they had forged a decent working relationship over time. Not sure if last year chenged any of that (apparently it did) but nothing specific sticks out as the reason why in my eyes. ** Oh, and just as a P.S.: Leo Mazzone is doing television these days maybe just waiting for a team to call

AG/DC May 02 2008 10:36 AM

I thought I'd showered for the very last time But God had other plans I toweled off and headed for the clubhouse But found myself shaking hands --- with Alou Time for shower twenty-two

metirish May 02 2008 10:37 AM

Showering that many times a day I would think that there would be times when he would make line up decisions while in there , nothing wrong with that I suppose. Kevin Keegan quit as England soccer manager while sitting on the toilet at Wembley stadium after defeat to Germany in 2000. Important decisions are made in the toilet.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 02 2008 10:42 AM

I remember that commercial. I think he got Zestfully clean.

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2008 10:48 AM

I remember that commercial too, as well as Tim McCarver expressing his disbelief during a Mets telecast. He went to Hershiser and asked if that was actually true, and Hershiser confirmed that it was. (If I remember correctly, he showered eight times a day. YouTube, anyone?) I wouldn't be surprised if he has some form of OCD.

Fman99 May 02 2008 10:56 AM

sharpie wrote: Hershiser used to do a commercial for a brand of soap (forget which) where he said "I shower five, six, sometimes seven times a day." I'm guessing: he gets up, takes a shower drives to the ballpark, takes a shower before changing into pre-game duds does his pre-game routine, takes a shower after the game, takes a shower goes home, takes a shower before bed. Those are five. Not sure where he fits in six and seven. Six could be on the nights he has sex with Mrs. Hershiser I suppose but I'm not sure about seven. As to whether he'd be a good manager, maybe if he didn't spend so much time in the shower. Yet I like the idea of him giving a starter the hook, telling them "Hit the showers, Ollie. I'll meet you in there."

TheOldMole May 02 2008 12:46 PM

The guy who had a great rep as a pitching coach who busted as manager because he couldn't handle his pitching staff...George Bamberger.

AG/DC May 02 2008 12:56 PM

Didn't bust with Milwaukee though.

willpie May 02 2008 12:58 PM

Wasn't Grady Little a pitching coach?

metsguyinmichigan May 02 2008 02:31 PM

Firing coaches always struck me as being like painting the car a different color because the engine died. Looks like you're doing something, but not really.

Frayed Knot May 02 2008 02:41 PM

="Benjamin Grimm"]I remember that commercial too, as well as Tim McCarver expressing his disbelief during a Mets telecast. He went to Hershiser and asked if that was actually true, and Hershiser confirmed that it was. (If I remember correctly, he showered eight times a day. YouTube, anyone?) My memory is going with five x/day. And was it soap or shampoo? I'm thinking 'Head and Shouders'

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2008 02:43 PM

Yeah, I also think it was shampoo.

Rockin' Doc May 02 2008 08:43 PM

Maybe he had to wash so frequently to get rid of the pizza smell.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 05 2008 08:15 AM

Interesting comment in Rubin's Snooze notes column today about Peterson blowing off interviews by saying he needs to have them pre-approved by the club, and Willie denying such an edict exists. I wonder what it is Rick Peterson doesn't want so much to say.

Benjamin Grimm May 05 2008 08:18 AM

That item piqued my curiosity as well. I wonder what's up? Peterson does comment to the press, I'm sure. I've read many of his quotes. Maybe he's looking to lay low on this Wagner/Perez thing?

batmagadanleadoff May 05 2008 08:22 AM

Or maybe there really is an edict.

metirish May 05 2008 08:29 AM

Willie says he didn't put a gag on him , perhaps Omar did, intrigue at Shea.

Frayed Knot May 05 2008 08:44 AM

He's certainly done interviews in the past - and not just the ST during-the-inning ones on SNY. Of course he tends to give long-winded answers which sail over the heads of some of the interviewers to the point where I'm not sure he gets asked back for future ones (maybe that's a strategy!) but he's alwasy seemed pleasent and cooperative while he's on.