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IGT 05/11/08 -- Reds @ Mets

bmfc1 May 11 2008 11:34 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 11 2008 11:40 AM

I'll start this one.... There's a sub franchise in Cincinnati called "Penn Station." I wonder if a transplanted NYker owns it. The answer to that one is "no." http://www.penn-station.com/history.php

bmfc1 May 11 2008 11:37 AM

Great first inning. I have the FSN OHIO on the TV but I paused the game so the internet feed from FAN catches up. It's a pain but worth it to hear Howie & Wayne instead of out-of-town announcers. Howie said that the Alou double bounced into "the grassy knoll." Was there a second hitter (or spitter)?

Zvon May 11 2008 12:15 PM

Not 100% here. Good game so far. Perez brought some stuff. :) Fortunately Castillo hit a RBI triple in the 1st. Unfortunately he kinda looked like my 75 year old dad running around the bases.

Nymr83 May 11 2008 12:18 PM

Perez has a SB and now with 2 outs he gets a bunt single!

TheOldMole May 11 2008 12:24 PM

Just tuning in. Perez stole a base?????

Nymr83 May 11 2008 12:25 PM

TheOldMole wrote: Just tuning in. Perez stole a base????? without even a throw. Cueto is slow to the plate, the 1st baseman wasn't holding him, and Cueto didnt even bother to look over.

Nymr83 May 11 2008 12:29 PM

STOP WALKING PEOPLE

bmfc1 May 11 2008 12:30 PM

Nymr83 wrote: STOP WALKING, PEOPLE (edited) so we should drive?

Zvon May 11 2008 12:40 PM

Zvon May 11 2008 12:41 PM

bmfc1 May 11 2008 12:42 PM

Church for the All-Star Game!

Zvon May 11 2008 12:48 PM

Keith and Gary talking about my man, Warren Zevon. For those who don't know, thats who my netnickname is from. Z-von.

bmfc1 May 11 2008 12:51 PM Edited 4 time(s), most recently on May 11 2008 01:03 PM

Zvon... how did they work the great Warren Zevon into conversation? "Enjoy every sandwich." (go to 1:58)

TheOldMole May 11 2008 12:56 PM

Most of all, I'm sorry I made you blue I'm betting the gorilla will too.

Zvon May 11 2008 01:02 PM

bmfc1 wrote: Z-von... how did they work the great Warren Zevon into conversation? "Enjoy every sandwich." Im not sure how it started. Im not watching the game 100%, tho trying to. Well, I can see it but can't hear it at all times. I know they mentioned his name and then got into talking about Werewolves Of London and some of his albums. 6-3 as the Mets are getting sloppy. Is this the same Perez who pitched the first five innings? Course it is.

Zvon May 11 2008 01:09 PM

I neglected to mention the great catch by Church that last inning. Nice. If Alou could have held on to the drive he tracked down that would have been sweeter. Castillo out of the game and the injury report states he is suffering from 70 year old legs. Hold on,...an update: Only one leg is 70 years old. The other is 75.

TheOldMole May 11 2008 01:09 PM

Following on GameDay -- Castillo injury serious?

Rockin' Doc May 11 2008 01:15 PM

It would appear that pink becomes the Mets offense.

bmfc1 May 11 2008 01:21 PM

Do the Mets have the personnel to give both Wright and Reyes a day off in the same game? I'm thinking Thursday afternoon, pre-MYFs, would be a good day. The bench today is Pagan (OF) , Castro (C), Endy (OF), Easley (IF/OF), Marlon (1B, 2B, OF).

Zvon May 11 2008 01:26 PM

TheOldMole wrote: Following on GameDay -- Castillo injury serious? "tight quad"

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 01:27 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 11 2008 01:46 PM

bmfc1 wrote: Do the Mets have the personnel to give ... Reyes a day off ....? I don't see why not. Here are Jose's stats over the Mets last 81 games - half a season: At Bats 333 Hits 77 2B 17 3B 6 HR 6 BB 37 AVG. .231 OBP. .308 SLG. 372 SB/ATT. 34/43 Total Plate Appearances - 378 (Trailing only Ichiro (383 TPA) over this period)

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 01:31 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 11 2008 01:32 PM

bmfc1 wrote: Do the Mets have the personnel to give both Wright and Reyes a day off in the same game? On further review, you have a good point, personnel-wise.

Zvon May 11 2008 01:31 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 11 2008 01:34 PM

Pitcher_ IP_ PC_ H_ ER_ BB_ K Perez _ 6.0 102_ 3_ 3__ 4_ 8

bmfc1 May 11 2008 01:33 PM

Thanks. I agree that he should get one, what I'm wondering if both he and Wright can get one in the same game. If Easley plays SS, then who can play 3B? If not, perhaps one will get this Wed. and the other this Thursday. After 4 games with the Nationals, the Mets then have the MFYs for 3, a day off, then 4 with the Braves in 3 days (away), then a three game trip to Colorado.

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 01:35 PM

Under present circumstances, I doubt that Randolph would rest both Wright and Reyes in the same game even if he could do so conveniently.

Zvon May 11 2008 01:39 PM

I would like to think Willie would try to avoid sitting them both on the same day. I'm all for both getting their needed rest. But unless the situation dictates it I don't see any reason why they should both sit the same game.

Zvon May 11 2008 02:10 PM

Reds are busted by Willie for batting out of order. Guess he IS paying attention.

Nymr83 May 11 2008 02:14 PM

Zvon wrote: Reds are busted by Willie for batting out of order. Guess he IS paying attention. NO, HE'S NOT. the rule is that the proper batter gets called out, but since ross made an out anyway he just bats again for himself wioth his out attributed to patterson. willie SHOULD HAVE waited until patterson (the second guy who would have batted out of order) did something and then potentially got an out even if petterson had hit/walked (in ross' spot)

Zvon May 11 2008 02:14 PM

Wow. And Ross gets a hit. Gary is saying Willie made a mistake by not letting Patterson, who was batting out of order, bat. Says he gained nothing by telling the umps at that point. Interesting stuff.

Zvon May 11 2008 02:18 PM

This is a mess. This should not take 10 minutes to work out.

Rockin' Doc May 11 2008 02:20 PM

It sounds like Willie is paying attention, but unfortunately neither he or any of the coaching staff knew the rules well enough to take full advantage of the Reds mistake.

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 02:21 PM

http://www.retrosheet.org/outturn.htm Batting out of turn.

Zvon May 11 2008 02:22 PM

Books ><

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 02:23 PM

5/2/1995 The Mets game in Montreal produced a comedy of errors. This was the first home game of the season for Montreal and their sixth overall. There were substitute umpires working major league games to start this season since the regular arbiters were locked out by the owners. When Luis Aquino and Cliff Floyd entered the game in the top of the sixth, the home plate umpire, Don January, incorrectly decided that Aquino was batting fifth and Floyd ninth. When Floyd came to bat in the #5 slot, Mets’ manager Dallas Green told January that the Expos were batting out of order. Expos manager Felipe Alou claimed he had Floyd fifth and Aquino ninth and that January made the mistake. Alou was ejected. January then allowed Floyd to bat and ground out, despite knowing that he was not the proper batter. Then January called Aquino out for not batting in order and sent the runner back (that, at least, was the right call.) After calling Aquino out, the next batter should be the one in the sixth spot, Sean Berry. However, January decided that Aquino should bat now. He singled to left and then Berry ended the inning with a ground out. Thus, Aquino had two at bats in one time through the batting order. Despite this confusion the Expos won, 9-6. http://www.retrosheet.org/outturn.htm

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 02:24 PM

4/29/1977 - In a game in San Diego, the Mets batted out of order through the whole game. The lineup featured Roy Staiger batting sixth, John Stearns seventh and Bud Harrelson eighth. This was a change from recent games when Stearns was sixth and Staiger seventh and the two batted this way four times in a row. In the first inning, Stearns hit into an inning-ending double play. Staiger made and out and Harrelson singled in the second (both batting out of turn.) Stearns led off the fourth with a home run but the Padres said nothing. Both Staiger and Harrelson made outs, again out of order. In the fifth, Stearns and Staiger were both out but Harrelson started the sixth by reaching on an infield error. With two out in the seventh, Stearns walked and Staiger singled him to third. However, the Padres finally speak up and the umpires incorrectly declare Staiger out instead of Harrelson, who led off the eighth inning. Even with all the batting changes, the Mets lost the game, 9-2. http://www.retrosheet.org/outturn.htm

bmfc1 May 11 2008 02:27 PM

nymr has it exactly right. I know this from coaching youth baseball. We had a game a few seasons ago when we ended an inning on play at the plate. The batter that hit the ball started the next inning. After he singled in the next inning, I told the ump. He went to the other team and they denied it (which was impossible). Since they were "home", they had the official book so their lineup was the one that counted and they got away with it. We won the game anyway. I'm not bitter at all.

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 02:27 PM

Rockin' Doc wrote: It sounds like Willie is paying attention, but unfortunately neither he or any of the coaching staff knew the rules well enough to take full advantage of the Reds mistake. Even the umpires screw this rule up. Try reading through this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_out_of_turn

Nymr83 May 11 2008 02:29 PM

the umpires and managers are PAID to know this rule, providing us with a link and saying "well, its confusing" isn't an excuse for them, its an excuse for the fan who didnt get it.

Zvon May 11 2008 02:30 PM

Very interesting that this is right in there: ]If the team at bat does not gain by the illegal action, the opposing manager usually says nothing. However, when that illegal batter does advance the cause of his team by advancing or scoring a runner, then it is time to speak out. Maybe Willie had pitch count on his mind, I dunno. But I do hope he learned something here, and I do hope it someday comes up again so I can find out if he did learn anything.

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 02:34 PM

Nymr83 wrote: the umpires and managers are PAID to know this rule, providing us with a link and saying "well, its confusing" isn't an excuse for them, its an excuse for the fan who didnt get it. Where did I excuse anybody?

Rockin' Doc May 11 2008 02:40 PM

This is the appropriate section that covers batting our of order. Probably not a bad idea to keep a rule book handy in the dugout for quick reference when such occurences come up. 6.07 BATTING OUT OF TURN. (a) A batter shall be called out, on appeal, when he fails to bat in his proper turn, and another batter completes a time at bat in his place. (1) The proper batter may take his place in the batter’s box at any time before the improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and any balls and strikes shall be counted in the proper batter’s time at bat. (b) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise. NOTE: If a runner advances, while the improper batter is at bat, on a stolen base, balk, wild pitch or passed ball, such advance is legal. (c) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and a pitch is made to the next batter of either team before an appeal is made, the improper batter thereby becomes the proper batter, and the results of his time at bat become legal. (d) (1) When the proper batter is called out because he has failed to bat in turn, the next batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of the proper batter thus called out; (2) When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is made before the next pitch, the next batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of such legalized improper batter. The instant an improper batter’s actions are legalized, the batting order picks up with the name following that of the legalized improper batter.

themetfairy May 11 2008 02:48 PM

This is the sort of rule that Bobby Valentine would know backwards and forwards in his sleep. I'm just sayin....

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2008 09:55 PM

[url=http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jUYKBmS95esJJlKLtKwl_rifQJPgD90JMRN01]Reds bat out of order in 9th inning during 8-3 loss to Mets[/url] excerpt: "Crew chief Dale Scott said he'd never seen it happen in 23 years of umpiring. 'Batting out of order can be one of the more confusing rules,' he said. 'You have to really think it through. We wanted to make sure we were doing it right.'" ____________________ Preemptive Disclaimer: The author of this post is clearly not excusing whatever confusion may or may not have afflicted any of the professionals involved in the above referenced play, even though the author of this post has provided a link quoting one of the involved umpires as acknowledging the confusing nature of the batting-out-of-order rule. The author further hopes that he himself is not deemed out-of-order in providing this disclaimer and also expects that no one here will be confused by the nature of this post, notwithstanding the confusing nature of the batting-out-of order-rule.

AG/DC May 12 2008 05:33 AM

The main person who should be embarassed here is Dusty Baker.