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Randolph - "Is it racial?"

metirish May 19 2008 10:51 AM

Willie is pissed. ] O'Connor: Randolph bares his pain Monday, May 19, 2008 By IAN O'CONNOR RECORD COLUMNIST NEW YORK — You wanted passion, right? You wanted Willie Randolph to be something the cameras and newspapers were telling you he was not. So Randolph was giving it to you Sunday night inside Yankee Stadium, before sweeping the Yanks. Behind a pillar in the old and damp visitors' clubhouse, while offering a fire-breathing defense of his three-plus years as Mets' manager, the former second baseman for the home team would have made Billy Martin proud. Randolph was holding a bottle of water in his right hand, squeezing it tight enough for you to believe he fancied it Billy Wagner's throat. Mets fans want their manager to show some life? Maybe they should be careful of what they ask for. "They don't like me?" Randolph said. " 'We don't like Willie.' Wait a minute, why don't you like me? I don't get it. Did I do anything to you? If you look at what I've done for your club, you should like me a little bit." The Mets were about to pound the Yanks by an 11-2 count, and Randolph was working himself into a lather, preparing for a bigger-picture fight. He was defending his style of leadership, criticizing the Mets' own network, SNY, for framing an incomplete portrait of that style, and wondering if the color of his skin contributed to the perception that he's a manager who doesn't have ample control of his team. Randolph also was reminding fans of where they were before he arrived, stuck with the catatonic gaze of Art Howe. "If you look at my body of work since I've been here," Randolph said, "I'm proud of that, because prior to that Mets fans were hiding. You couldn't even find them ... The season's just starting and you're booing my guys already? You're booing your team?' " Randolph grew up a Mets fan in Brownsville. He danced in the streets when his team won it all in '69. So no, he doesn't want to lose this job he's supposed to be in danger of losing. Randolph said the criticism of his work "hurts me to my core because I know that I put my heart and soul into getting this team I grew up watching back to where we feel like we're competitive and we can play the game. "We got there quick, right to the doorstep, one swing away from going to the [2006] World Series, and then we did a little moonwalk. That's because we weren't ready." Randolph isn't ready to accept the popular notions about his allegedly placid approach to the craft. He believes those notions are hardened by SNY's selective camerawork. "They're the artists, I'm the canvas," Randolph said. "They paint the picture the way they want to. They want to show me when somebody gives up a home run or somebody makes an error, so they want to see me [using profanity]. "Well, my players are watching the monitors in the bullpen going, 'Look at Skip, he's cursing us out.' That's not how I lead. But when the game is over, I'm [on them]. 'And why don't you turn over a couple of [food] spreads?' I've done that. You might not know it. "Why [isn't] SNY shooting me when I'm ready to go down the dugout clapping my hands and patting guys on the butt, schooling them during the game? I'm on the top step every game. ... Why don't you show that side of me so people can say, 'Wow, jeez, Willie's fiery'? ... You watch any manager in baseball, you see him look like a bump on the log sitting there. They don't move, they don't talk. I'm as animated and as demonstrative and as involved and as intense as any manager in baseball." Randolph excluded Ozzie Guillen from the conversation, but wanted to know why the traits often admired in the calm, cool and collected likes of Joe Torre are portrayed as flaws in Torre's former third base coach. "Is it racial?" Randolph asked. "Huh? It smells a little bit." Asked directly if he believes black managers are held to different standards than their white counterparts, Randolph said: "I don't know how to put my finger on it, but I think there's something there. Herman Edwards did pretty well here and he won a couple of playoff [games], and they were pretty hard on Herm. Isiah [Thomas] didn't do a great job, but they beat up Isiah pretty good. ... I don't know if people are used to a certain figurehead. There's something weird about it. "I think it's very important ... that I handle myself in a way that the [African-American managers] coming behind me will get the opportunities, too ... ." Across this wet and wild weekend in the Bronx, Randolph handled himself with the greatest of ease. He hardly looked or acted the part of a man on the firing line. He went 2-0 against Joe Girardi, who would kill for the Mets' 22-19 record. Randolph was seen and heard encouraging his players and joking with the press. But his inner pain was real and raw. Randolph listens to the radio and reads the papers. "I just tried to step back and not let the Brooklyn come out of me," he said. The Brownsville part of Brooklyn urging him to lash out. "That's not how you lead," the manager said. "There are other people looking for me to lead, to set a certain standard for people, to be part of something, a legacy. And If I show myself as out of control, then I'm sending a message to a lot of people beyond what I'm doing here." Randolph believes he's better when tested; it's the old Yankee in him. In the fourth inning Sunday night, when Carlos Delgado's three-run homer was somehow overruled into a foul ball, Randolph berated the umps, only not enough to get ejected. Bob Davidson, home plate ump, screamed at Randolph to shut up. The manager let his bench coach, Jerry Manuel, take the hit. Randolph knew this second game with the Yanks was too important to watch on a clubhouse TV. "I have to stay in control and keep my total wits about me, no matter what," he said before the game. "No matter what they're doing to me, I try not to take it personally even though it's hard not to. I'm a human being." A wounded and proud human being. "My track record speaks for itself," Randolph said. "We had a horrible meltdown last year, but prior to that we were the best team in baseball." Soon enough, Randolph was done talking in the visitors' clubhouse. He wanted to get ready to take Game 2 from the Yanks. "I'll be here for a while," the manager of the Mets promised on exit. So Randolph was giving it to you Sunday night inside Yankee Stadium, before sweeping the Yanks. Behind a pillar in the old and damp visitors' clubhouse, while offering a fire-breathing defense of his three-plus years as Mets' manager, the former second baseman for the home team would have made Billy Martin proud. Randolph was holding a bottle of water in his right hand, squeezing it tight enough for you to believe he fancied it Billy Wagner's throat. Mets fans want their manager to show some life? Maybe they should be careful of what they ask for. "They don't like me?" Randolph said. " 'We don't like Willie.' Wait a minute, why don't you like me? I don't get it. Did I do anything to you? If you look at what I've done for your club, you should like me a little bit." The Mets were about to pound the Yanks by an 11-2 count, and Randolph was working himself into a lather, preparing for a bigger-picture fight. He was defending his style of leadership, criticizing the Mets' own network, SNY, for framing an incomplete portrait of that style, and wondering if the color of his skin contributed to the perception that he's a manager who doesn't have ample control of his team. Randolph also was reminding fans of where they were before he arrived, stuck with the catatonic gaze of Art Howe. "If you look at my body of work since I've been here," Randolph said, "I'm proud of that, because prior to that Mets fans were hiding. You couldn't even find them ... The season's just starting and you're booing my guys already? You're booing your team?' " Randolph grew up a Mets fan in Brownsville. He danced in the streets when his team won it all in '69. So no, he doesn't want to lose this job he's supposed to be in danger of losing. Randolph said the criticism of his work "hurts me to my core because I know that I put my heart and soul into getting this team I grew up watching back to where we feel like we're competitive and we can play the game. "We got there quick, right to the doorstep, one swing away from going to the [2006] World Series, and then we did a little moonwalk. That's because we weren't ready." Randolph isn't ready to accept the popular notions about his allegedly placid approach to the craft. He believes those notions are hardened by SNY's selective camerawork. "They're the artists, I'm the canvas," Randolph said. "They paint the picture the way they want to. They want to show me when somebody gives up a home run or somebody makes an error, so they want to see me [using profanity]. "Well, my players are watching the monitors in the bullpen going, 'Look at Skip, he's cursing us out.' That's not how I lead. But when the game is over, I'm [on them]. 'And why don't you turn over a couple of [food] spreads?' I've done that. You might not know it. "Why [isn't] SNY shooting me when I'm ready to go down the dugout clapping my hands and patting guys on the butt, schooling them during the game? I'm on the top step every game. ... Why don't you show that side of me so people can say, 'Wow, jeez, Willie's fiery'? ... You watch any manager in baseball, you see him look like a bump on the log sitting there. They don't move, they don't talk. I'm as animated and as demonstrative and as involved and as intense as any manager in baseball." Randolph excluded Ozzie Guillen from the conversation, but wanted to know why the traits often admired in the calm, cool and collected likes of Joe Torre are portrayed as flaws in Torre's former third base coach. "Is it racial?" Randolph asked. "Huh? It smells a little bit." Asked directly if he believes black managers are held to different standards than their white counterparts, Randolph said: "I don't know how to put my finger on it, but I think there's something there. Herman Edwards did pretty well here and he won a couple of playoff [games], and they were pretty hard on Herm. Isiah [Thomas] didn't do a great job, but they beat up Isiah pretty good. ... I don't know if people are used to a certain figurehead. There's something weird about it. "I think it's very important ... that I handle myself in a way that the [African-American managers] coming behind me will get the opportunities, too ... ." Across this wet and wild weekend in the Bronx, Randolph handled himself with the greatest of ease. He hardly looked or acted the part of a man on the firing line. He went 2-0 against Joe Girardi, who would kill for the Mets' 22-19 record. Randolph was seen and heard encouraging his players and joking with the press. But his inner pain was real and raw. Randolph listens to the radio and reads the papers. "I just tried to step back and not let the Brooklyn come out of me," he said. The Brownsville part of Brooklyn urging him to lash out. "That's not how you lead," the manager said. "There are other people looking for me to lead, to set a certain standard for people, to be part of something, a legacy. And If I show myself as out of control, then I'm sending a message to a lot of people beyond what I'm doing here." Randolph believes he's better when tested; it's the old Yankee in him. In the fourth inning Sunday night, when Carlos Delgado's three-run homer was somehow overruled into a foul ball, Randolph berated the umps, only not enough to get ejected. Bob Davidson, home plate ump, screamed at Randolph to shut up. The manager let his bench coach, Jerry Manuel, take the hit. Randolph knew this second game with the Yanks was too important to watch on a clubhouse TV. "I have to stay in control and keep my total wits about me, no matter what," he said before the game. "No matter what they're doing to me, I try not to take it personally even though it's hard not to. I'm a human being." A wounded and proud human being. "My track record speaks for itself," Randolph said. "We had a horrible meltdown last year, but prior to that we were the best team in baseball." Soon enough, Randolph was done talking in the visitors' clubhouse. He wanted to get ready to take Game 2 from the Yanks. "I'll be here for a while," the manager of the Mets promised on exit.

seawolf17 May 19 2008 11:38 AM

No, Willie, it was suck. If the team had a little less suck, then nobody would want you fired. It's really very simple.

Nymr83 May 19 2008 12:25 PM

way to play the "they hate 'cause i'm black" victim card willie, never mind the biggest collapse in the history of the game. i now support his immediate firing despite my generally wanting to give any manager a bigger chunk of the season before letting them go.

AG/DC May 19 2008 12:33 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 19 2008 12:41 PM

Way to play the "I hate him because he invokes racism" card. He's allowed to ask that question, whether it's true or not. I don't think that's the issue either, but he makes plenty of good points.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 19 2008 12:38 PM

As much as I suspect Randolph's got way more troubles than he ever lets on to, I kind of admire his integrity in refusing to give fans and critics what they want. His explanation for not getting run after the Delgado debacle last night made perfect sense.

Centerfield May 19 2008 12:43 PM

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't hate Willie because he's black. I hate Willie because I think he's dumb and doing a bad job.

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2008 12:49 PM

Willie is reminding me of President Bush here. He thinks that because he's trying hard, and because he cares, that he's doing a good job.

Centerfield May 19 2008 01:05 PM

I hate President Bush because he's black.

metsguyinmichigan May 19 2008 01:47 PM

I once covered a school board in a racially charged city, and when I wrote something critical, several members would automatically call me racist. This used to get me pretty upset. One day the editor pulled me aside and said not to worry about it, because these members say that because a) they know it upsets people b) it takes the focus off them and their misdeeds, and puts it on the accuser. Willie might be upset, but he knows better. People were just as hard -- if not harder -- on Art Howe, who tended to be white. And the fans boo anybody who is underperforming, be they white -- Schoenweis last year -- black -- Roger Cedeno, Bonilla -- Hispanic -- Delgado -- Asian -- Matsui -- or demonic -- Jeter.

AG/DC May 19 2008 02:05 PM

But they come up with bullshit moral reasons to justify it for all them also. And Willie's got to be sick about answering for his demeanor. Peolple boo because they prefer winning to losing. It's emotionally exhausting for the personnel to deal with losing and abuse, but infuriating when people say you don't care enough. No, caring a lot doesn't make Willie a good manager. But the same argument suggests that it's pretty insupportable to argue that the Mets are failing because Willie doesn't care more.

Nymr83 May 19 2008 02:05 PM

] b) it takes the focus off them and their misdeeds, and puts it on the accuser. Willie might be upset, but he knows better. People were just as hard -- if not harder -- on Art Howe, who tended to be white. and thats exactly the problem i have with people like willie who play the race card

AG/DC May 19 2008 02:06 PM

You've never detected a hostile racial atmosphere among Mets fans?

Nymr83 May 19 2008 02:11 PM

No, I haven't. When have you?

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2008 02:13 PM

I haven't detected any anti-black sentiment for a long time, if ever. But there's certainly been resentment expressed about the number of Hispanic players.

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2008 02:16 PM

And I have no doubt that Willie cares. His demeanor isn't the problem. (His approach, demeanor-wise, is rather similar to that of Gil Hodges.) I have more of a problem with his in-game decisions than I do with what he does in the clubhouse. (Although, of course, I'm much less aware of what goes on in the clubhouse.)

AG/DC May 19 2008 02:19 PM

The fury that the Mets took a Spanish media question first at the Carlos Delgado press conference. Insinuations that Willie was an affirmative action hire. Insinuations that Minaya hired him out of fealty toward a fellow man of color. Accusations that Minaya is buiding a roster of Latinos out of racial loyalty. Everything about the Armando Benitez controversy was tinged in veiled racial contempt. Armando haters at the MOFo even enjoyed making fun of his accent. I don't agree with Willie that criticism of him based on his demeanor is racial. I do agree that it's unfair, and I do agree that his race has led to a hostile work environment of some degree, and that's got to be dispiriting. I don't think he's out of line in questioning after all that, even if I think it's wrong.

attgig May 19 2008 02:29 PM

so, instead of just denying racism outright, let's have a looksee, and be able to back up with clear logic that you/we aren't hating on will cuz of race. torre, i don't think is a good comparison. he was winning every single year. you win, your style is working. Willie needs to understand his team and make sure his style meshes with the team's dynamic. I think he does makes one comparison that is interesting willie vs howe : everyone hated art howe, but howe never got blasted like willie did (subject to discussion). Do we expect more out of willie than how, becaues he has a better GM? it's not like howe had horrible horrible teams either though. the first year of willie's team was comparable to one of howe's teams. yeah, we got beltran, but he wasn't that great, and Pedro was good that first year, but, the rest of the staff was pretty horrible. Of course, willie was not hated that first year. at that point, he was MUCH better than Howe. hands down. but that isn't saying much. I'd be hard pressed to put the hating on willie vs the lesser hating on howe up to racism. but rather, at this point, willie's team is expected to win. expected post season every year. and he didn't deliver last year. i think most people would be willing to give him a free pass for one year. but, he deserves the rest of this year to prove himself. one good point he made... "The season's just starting and you're booing my guys already? You're booing your team?' " He wasn't talking about race on that one. I like the quote, cuz i think that's the first time i've heard him defending his team. maybe the players asked for that in their meeting.

attgig May 19 2008 02:30 PM

="metsguyinmichigan":3k94200g]Willie might be upset, but he knows better. People were just as hard -- if not harder -- on Art Howe, who tended to be white. [/quote:3k94200g] really? I just don't remember people hating howe as much as they hate willie now. but i think partly, it was because the front office was such a mess, people didn't want to just blame howe. AG/DC May 19 2008 02:40 PM ="attgig":10y8fpix]one good point he made... "The season's just starting and you're booing my guys already? You're booing your team?' " He wasn't talking about race on that one. I like the quote, cuz i think that's the first time i've heard him defending his team. maybe the players asked for that in their meeting.[/quote:10y8fpix] Yeah, that's a good point. And I think there's a lot to chew on there, but it's all going to be lost in the specualtion of a racial double standard. batmagadanleadoff May 19 2008 03:38 PM ="Centerfield":vn0o7l3v]I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't hate Willie because he's black. I hate Willie because I think he's dumb and doing a bad job.[/quote:vn0o7l3v] ="Benjamin Grimm":vn0o7l3v]And I have no doubt that Willie cares. His demeanor isn't the problem. (His approach, demeanor-wise, is rather similar to that of Gil Hodges.) I have more of a problem with his in-game decisions than I do with what he does in the clubhouse. (Although, of course, I'm much less aware of what goes on in the clubhouse.)[/quote:vn0o7l3v] Me too. Vic Sage May 19 2008 04:17 PM managers get too much credit when they win, and too much blame when they lose. As the person who coined the term "wee willie small balls", i've been on record as having little regard for Willie's managerial philosophy and game management. That being said, i happen to like Willie as a person (to the extent anyone can actually know him thru the media), and i wish him all good things. I think his presence or absence as Mets manager will make little difference, by the end of the season. Minaya has had, and will continue to have, much greater impact on this team's success or lack thereof. In my mind, the team is too reliant on Delgado, Castillo, Alou and Martinez for this year's success, and those were problems that concerned many of us before the season started. That the elder players are aging fast, and the younger ones are not yet having the same MVP type years as they did last season, places us squarely behind the 8-ball. So far, we're being held aloft by Church & Schneider hitting out of their minds, and Santana, Maine and Wagner holding up their ends. No amount of managerial temperment is going to get Beltran, Ollie Perez, Pelfrey, Reyes and Wright more consistent, or turn back the clock for the other guys. As much as i don't like Willie as a manager, it's getting to the point now that I'd just as soon keep him as a "fuck you" to all those calling for his head. Frankly, I'd just as soon have them fire Minaya first. Centerfield May 19 2008 04:37 PM I don't see why you would be so indifferent to a managerial change. If you think he lacks game management skills, such can have an effect on the outcome of a season. I agree that it may not be a 15 game swing, but after falling 1 game short last year, isn't it important to take every advantage you can? I realize that making the post-season is like gambling, where the odds are against you. I just wish we didn't have a manager who insisted on doubling down on hard 12's. Kong76 May 19 2008 05:28 PM I'm pretty indifferent to it too. Nymr83 May 19 2008 05:43 PM vic: i know minaya may not have produced the goods yet but i just like the guy, if you think he deserves to be fired thats alright and you may be rigght. i think the GM has an advantage over the manager in the "who do the fans want fired" sweepstakes because the GM made his moves in the offseason and even years earlier in building the team, while the manager is the one making decisions for all to criticize during the season. after the mets lose a game more people are going to call in and say "fire the manager, i can't believe he brought Joe Scrub in to face Pujols there," they aren't going to say "fire the GM, i can't believe Joe Scrub was thebest guy we had in the bullpen there" joe torre won enough world series to be immune to the wrath of the fans, but when criticized he often fell victim to this logic, the principle yankee weakness in the regular season from 2001-2007 was probably the bullpen, and torre always got yelled at by wfan callers and newspaper writers for not bringing Rivera or (whoever the 2nd most reliable guy was that year) into a certain spot, ignoring the fact that if he did as they asked every time Rivera would have had 200 innings on his arm per year. you dont hear much "fire cashman, the bum has a 200 million dollar team and couldnt find a decent setup guy" AG/DC May 19 2008 06:46 PM The only blood I'm looking for is the other team's. GYC May 19 2008 08:44 PM GYC May 19 2008 08:45 PM Oh, and he defended Herm Edwards. Fuck both of them. Nymr83 May 19 2008 09:17 PM ="AG/DC"]The only blood I'm looking for is the other team's. And you'd like to have the manager best equipped to draw it, right? ="GYC"]Oh, and he defended Herm Edwards. Fuck both of them who defended edwards? willie? one more thing, and this isn't willie's fault but o'connors dumb editorializing: ]Randolph knew this second game with the Yanks was too important to watch on a clubhouse TV. what makes it so important? are they in your division? do you trail them in the wild card standings? i wish the writers would stop treating the "subway series" like it is anything more than the least important regular season games the mets will play. SteveJRogers May 19 2008 09:34 PM ="Nymr83"] one more thing, and this isn't willie's fault but o'connors dumb editorializing: ]Randolph knew this second game with the Yanks was too important to watch on a clubhouse TV. what makes it so important? are they in your division? do you trail them in the wild card standings? i wish the writers would stop treating the "subway series" like it is anything more than the least important regular season games the mets will play. ITA, especially considering sometimes the same writers who write stuff like that will at the same time will state that there is no juice in the SS. You can't have it both ways, you can't say "Oh, there is no juice in the SS" and then go on about how important the games are as opposed to last weekend's series against Cincy. Perfect example last year, Wally Matthews often will discuss how meaningless the Subway Series games are to everyone who isn't a fan, but then called a Carlos Beltran at bat against Mariano Rivera during the first series Beltran's biggest since ending the '06 NLCS. Like Beltran's early season ABs against the Phillies and Braves didn't mean a thing. AG/DC May 19 2008 09:45 PM ="Nymr83":1xzwp4sf] ="AG/DC":1xzwp4sf]The only blood I'm looking for is the other team's.[/quote:1xzwp4sf] And you'd like to have the manager best equipped to draw it, right?[/quote:1xzwp4sf] And you know who that is? I don't. I'd like the best team. MFS62 May 20 2008 07:13 AM Congrats to all of you. After the initial few posts, the discussion in this thread has centered on Willie's abilities as a manager. And that's the point. None of the discussion has been based on his race. And that seems to support the view that Willie was wrong in saying what he did. Later seawolf17 May 20 2008 07:17 AM You're only saying that because you're black. Benjamin Grimm May 20 2008 07:26 AM ="AG/DC"] ="Nymr83"] ="AG/DC"]The only blood I'm looking for is the other team's. And you'd like to have the manager best equipped to draw it, right? And you know who that is? I don't. I'd like the best team. I don't know who it is either. But I really don't think it's Willie Randolph. There's little point in replacing Willie with a different manager unless it's also a <i>better</i> manager. It's easy enough to find one who's more fiery. My criteria is someone who's smarter, and that's harder to identify, at least from where I sit. AG/DC May 20 2008 07:36 AM That's where I sit, and if I'm going to change horses, I'd like to have a plan. I've seen moments of seeming brilliance from Willie --- where his critics were dead wrong --- but far too many moments of seeming oversight (starting with him blowing a double switch his first time out), retrograde choices, and intellectual stubborn-ness. I'm not at the point where the organizational trauma of a mid-season switch is worth it, when I'm not sure what I'm getting (thought I was much closer to that point three days ago). Maybe we all need to watch more Zephyrball. Benjamin Grimm May 20 2008 07:49 AM I found a rather <a href="http://www.nola.com/forums/zephyrs/" target="_new">difficult to navigate Zephyrs forum</a>. Maybe there's a better one out there. I was looking for a good forum we could visit or blogger who we could invite here to discuss the pros and cons of Ken Oberkfell. I didn't spend a whole lot of time searching, so maybe there's something out there, but I came up pretty empty. MFS62 May 20 2008 08:26 AM The only race we care about is the pennant race. Later Benjamin Grimm May 20 2008 10:34 AM Willie's on SNY RIGHT NOW saying his comments were "tongue in cheek." AG/DC May 20 2008 10:41 AM Cool. metirish May 20 2008 10:44 AM That's certainly not how Ian O 'Connor's article read , interesting. G-Fafif May 20 2008 11:20 AM And Wagner wasn't talking about Delgado the other day either. metirish May 20 2008 11:33 AM What Willie said , today that is. ] "Well, you know, this really just boils back down to wins and losses. It really does. I think when you’re an environment like this where expectations are high and we don’t play up to our capabilities at any point in time, there’s going to be a lot of talk, a lot of fodder, opinions on how we played. Yeah, it does seem like after a while it gets to be pounded on a little bit. "But I understand that. I think I mentioned to [O'Connor] about feeling almost racial or whatever, but that was pretty much kind of a tongue in cheek kind of reaction to what I’ve been feeling. Not that anybody is racist, or this is racist or racial. I’ve known Ian a long time. We were just kind of chit-chatting and talking or whatever. "But the Wilpons hired me because – not because I’m black – because they can feel like I can do a good job for them. They trusted this team to me and they hired me because they feel like I can do the job not the color of my skin. "Again, it’s been a lot of negative stuff going around here and I’ve been feeling some of that. Again, I was just expressing how I felt at the time, but it wasn’t anything to do with race and I wasn’t trying to bring race into it. I was just talking to an old friend and obviously I probably should have thought more about what I was getting ready to say. I don’t think it’s about race. It’s about winning ballgames, it’s about getting to the way we’re capable of playing and winning." Nymr83 May 20 2008 12:25 PM ="Benjamin Grimm"] I don't know who it is either. But I really don't think it's Willie Randolph. There's little point in replacing Willie with a different manager unless it's also a <i>better</i> manager. It's easy enough to find one who's more fiery. My criteria is someone who's smarter, and that's harder to identify, at least from where I sit. certainly we can look at other guy's with experience and see if they do the right things... don't bunt like crazy for no reason, dont bring in 5 relievers in 3 innings, etc. Benjamin Grimm May 20 2008 12:28 PM Oh, I agree that it's possible to determine if a guy uses smart strategy. What I was saying was that I don't know who the smart guys are. (And I'm not going to conduct an extensive investigation, either, unless I'm appointed as head of the Manager Search Committee.) AG/DC May 20 2008 12:28 PM Certainly. You start. Vic Sage May 20 2008 03:09 PM ="Centerfield":ru456v70]I don't see why you would be so indifferent to a managerial change. If you think he lacks game management skills, such can have an effect on the outcome of a season. I agree that it may not be a 15 game swing, but after falling 1 game short last year, isn't it important to take every advantage you can? I realize that making the post-season is like gambling, where the odds are against you. I just wish we didn't have a manager who insisted on doubling down on hard 12's.[/quote:ru456v70] I think managers have markedly less impact than they are given credit (or blame) for. And while i don't often agree with Willie, and criticized his hiring from the outset, i just don't think it would make much of a difference. If Wright and Reyes were repeating their MVP seasons, and Ollie Perez was repeating his success from last year, We'd be a few games up instead of a few games back, and few would be calling for Willie's head on a pike. Joe Torre was the same manager with the Mets in the late 1970s as he was with the Braves, the Cards and the Yanks, and now with L.A. His sucesses and failures were driven by his rosters, not the otherway around. I just think a mid-season managerial firing is the hallmark of a troubled franchise making a panicky move, and i don't want us to do that. If the Mets fail to make the post-season again, the Wilpons should fire Minaya AND Willie, then conduct an exhaustive search for the best up-and-coming GM in the business (hopefully one that worked for Billy Beane, or at least one that doesn't need SABRmetrics explained to him), and let him hire who he wants to hire. soupcan May 21 2008 08:46 AM I sit at my desk all day, fielding phone calls, making phone calls, doing paperworkand tooling around a bit on the 'net during and in between. I always have the radio on, tuned to WFAN. Its just to have some background buzz but of course I hear what they're saying. This entire Willie Randolph thing has just gotten completely out of hand. This initial comment: ]"Is it racial?" Randolph asked. "Huh? It smells a little bit." Asked directly if he believes black managers are held to different standards than their white counterparts, Randolph said: "I don't know how to put my finger on it, but I think there's something there. Herman Edwards did pretty well here and he won a couple of playoff [games], and they were pretty hard on Herm. Isiah [Thomas] didn't do a great job, but they beat up Isiah pretty good. ... I don't know if people are used to a certain figurehead. There's something weird about it. Has become 'Willie's invoking the race card!'. Every one who calls in wants to talk about it. The program hosts are constantly bringing it up and coming down on one side or the other. Mostly they 'don't agree'. I realize that they need to stir up controversy, that's their job but this is bordering on, if it isn't already and completely irresponsible journalism. Where in that paragraph does Randolph say he is being discriminated against in any fashion whatsoever? And let's say that Willie did say something like that. How do caucasian radio hosts have the audacity to 'disagree' with him?! How could they possibly have any idea what a black man in a high profile position experiences in terms of racism? 'Well, I don't think Met fans are racist. I've never seen it." Amazing. Truly. And then, when asked to clarify his comments, Willie basically says, "hey, that's not really what I meant or was trying to say." These guys don't back off. They don't accept it. Because, well they know better. They know what Willie meant. He's playing the race card to deflect criticsm of his poor record. I was hoping that Randolph was trying to invoke an old Torre tactic of trying to deflect criticism of the team towards him when he gave that interview to O'Connor and maybe he was. Even so though, Willie does not in any way deserve the the skewering his getting on the radio these days. Its embarassing. AG/DC May 21 2008 08:51 AM They don't back off because scavengers don't back off an injured animal. They won't back off anymore than boobirds will back off when it becomes possible that they are actually damaging a player's work environment. They prey on the weak, and Willie appeared to have shown a weakness, whether he actually has or not. Grote15 May 21 2008 11:55 AM Media feeds on fear and the consumption of it. They prey on the weak and don't stop until that days' or weeks lunch is done. Willie Randolph is todays lunch. As manager I would prefer someone else..Today... As an employee, human being and man..Leave Randolph alone whether he be white,black,latino or purple...It's his job..If his boss feels his services are no longer required he will be fired. I feel the season can be summed up by Hernandez sitting in the bleachers. One big fucking joke. And if I were the owner I would politely dismiss Willie Randolph and hire the best available candidate. Its' late May and the season has denigrated into a bullshitfest..Good Lord.. Ted G. metirish May 21 2008 08:43 PM I dunno but I think the end is near. ] Randolph apologizes to Mets management, SNY BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com - Three days after making inflammatory comments to the Bergen Record, Willie Randolph issued an apology before Wednesday night's game against the Braves. When reporters entered the visiting manager's office here at Turner Field for his daily briefing, Randolph was sitting at his desk, an 8x11 sheet of white loose-leaf paper in front of him. The page was filled with notes carefully written in black ink. When the first question was asked about the health of Ryan Church, who was hospitalized Tuesday with a mild concussion, Randolph politely steered the conversation in another direction. "Before I start guys, I need to say a few things real quick," Randolph said. "First of all I want to apologize to Met ownership, SNY and my team for the unnecessary distraction that I created the last couple of days. I shouldn't have said what I said. It was a mistake -- simple as that. It was a mistake. There's no excuses for that. I'm owning up to it. "The fact of life is that we haven't been playing very well as a team. We've been very inconsistent. When that happens, you're going to be criticized for that. I understand that. It's been a tough couple of months. I expect a lot from my team, from myself, and I understand that goes along with it. I've been in this town for a long time. "I take full responsibility for what I said in my frustration and I hope that we can put a close to this matter and focus on winning a lot of baseball games. That's what we're here to do -- win a championship. I just wanted to publicly apologize and I take full responsibility for what happened a couple of days ago." Randolph later said during his weekly appearance on WFAN that his comments were meant to be off the record, a claim the Record's Ian O'Connor vehemently denies. But apparently it took him almost 72 hours to fully realize how much of a mess he had made. Randolph suggested that racial bias may be part of the reason for the media criticism. He also angered SNY officials by saying the network's coverage was slanted against him. That also did not go over well with the upper management of the Mets, who also own the majority stake in SNY, and apparently Randolph's handling of the fallout on Tuesday did not suffice. The Mets manager said he already had reached out to the Wilpons to apologize directly, but was not instructed by team ownership to issue the statement. COO Jeff Wilpon did not return a telephone call seeking comment. Randolph also told WFAN that he was so troubled by the controversy that he talked with his pastor and family about how to make amends. "I just felt like it was something I wanted to do," Ran.dolph said. "I feel bad about how this has come about because I don't want to be a distraction or for anyone to think this is really how I feel. When you're in the heat of battle sometimes, when you're frustrated, sometimes you open up a little bit or elaborate a little too much, and that's probably what I did." More articles Nymr83 May 21 2008 08:56 PM ]Its' late May and the season has denigrated into a bullshitfest..Good Lord.. The Mets are 22-22, 3.5 out of a Marlin team that likely won't be there in september and 2 behind the phillies and braves, i'm not happy with how the mets are playing but its hardly as bad as you make it out to be. DocTee May 21 2008 09:16 PM Considering that several of last year's playoff teams (DET, COL, MFY) and one with championship hopes (CLE) are playing worse than the Mets, you'd think we are better than some suggest. metirish May 22 2008 06:59 AM I tuned into the radio for a few innings last night , Howie and Wayne were talking about the Randolph controversy , Howie maintained that it was causing a distraction to the team and has created " tension" among the team he didn't elaborate . Edgy DC Dec 29 2008 07:18 PM Before Willie was a victim of cruel mistreatment by stupid assholes, he was a stupid asshole playing the race card. All it took for his public rehabilitation was his termination. This incident turned out, according to Willie, to be his one regret (or main regret) upon leaving the Mets. And I offer this thread as a second nominee for the Craney --- even though I have too much to say in it. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 29 2008 08:43 PM I think given some perspective this was all about Willie's paranoia careening further and further off course. That said I still think everyone reacted way too harshly, and a public apology must have been murder on Willie's dignity. Again, the Mets being the "bad guy" in his firing a month later did him a big favor.