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Is it time to make a trade???

mario25 Jun 08 2008 09:41 AM

With Alou's injury problems and Church having concussion after effects should the Mets make a move for an Outfielder???? Some names I can see being on the block are Bill Hall, Jose Guillen and Nady.....Chavez is not hitting and I think Tatis is a nice option off the bench but the team needs to stay within striking distance of the Phils.

Elster88 Jun 08 2008 09:47 AM

Are any of those guys available?

DocTee Jun 08 2008 09:49 AM

Guillen for sure as per ESPN. Apparently so are Grudzielanek and any other "pricy" vets on that team. I'd love to add Bill Hall-- he's my version of JCL's Ray Durham.

mario25 Jun 08 2008 09:51 AM

The NY Post has an article about Guillen being trade bait and Hall wants out of Milwaukee. The Pirates will explore their options to save money.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 08 2008 09:56 AM

I like Bill Hall too -- forget where I saw it but he's PO'ed over being asked to accept a PT role. Often, teams solve that problem by trading the guy. I don't know if we have enough to reel in the Phils under any circumstances.

Grote15 Jun 08 2008 11:01 AM

Talk around the Sports Illustrated office is Omar has talked to Colorado about assuming some of Beltrans money in return for Matt Holliday Personally I think Beltran would be happy to get out of the NY media and Holliday is a corner bopper..GO FOR IT!

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2008 11:05 AM

Grote15 wrote: Talk around the Sports Illustrated office is Omar has talked to Colorado about assuming some of Beltrans money in return for Matt Holliday I don't buy a word of that.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2008 11:20 AM

If there's anyone interested in Oliver Perez, I'd be talking to them. He pitched reasonably well yesterday. His value may never be higher, at least, between now and the end of the season.

seawolf17 Jun 08 2008 12:14 PM

I'd trade Perez in heartbeat. I think he could definitely bring back some useful parts.

Zvon Jun 08 2008 02:06 PM

Have you seen the season Nady's so far? I wouldn't mind seeing him return. And I'll have pre-made KaBooms!

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 09 2008 08:25 AM

="Grote15"]Talk around the Sports Illustrated office is Omar has talked to Colorado about assuming some of Beltrans money in return for Matt Holliday Personally I think Beltran would be happy to get out of the NY media and Holliday is a corner bopper..GO FOR IT! For the love of all that is holy... Matt Holliday, career away from Coors Field: 1260 PA/.274 Avg/.336 OBP/.444 SLG Carlos Beltran, career at Shea: 1064 PA/ .258 Avg/.364 OBP/.452 SLG No No NO NO NONONO!!!!!!!

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2008 08:28 AM

Cleon has been arguing Beltran's worthlessness for a long time now.

sharpie Jun 09 2008 08:37 AM

Our replacements for Beltran are also worse than our replacements for a corner outfielder -- and Alou allegedly comes back tomorrow.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 09 2008 08:48 AM

Matt Holliday - Coors Field = Mark Kotsay - ability to play CF Matt Holliday - Coors Field < Jeremy Burnitz Carlos Beltran > Mark Kotsay Carlos Beltran > Jeremy Burnitz Mets > Mets - Carlos Beltran + Matt Holliday

Willets Point Jun 09 2008 08:56 AM

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: Matt Holliday - Coors Field = Mark Kotsay - ability to play CF Matt Holliday - Coors Field <Jeremy> Mark Kotsay Carlos Beltran > Jeremy Burnitz Mets > Mets - Carlos Beltran + Matt Holliday Woah, I haven't seen mathematics like that since the time of Joelman.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 09 2008 09:03 AM

Willets Point wrote: ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Matt Holliday - Coors Field = Mark Kotsay - ability to play CF Matt Holliday - Coors Field <Jeremy> Mark Kotsay Carlos Beltran > Jeremy Burnitz Mets > Mets - Carlos Beltran + Matt Holliday Woah, I haven't seen mathematics like that since the time of Joelman. Yeah, I forgot to disable HTML at first. I did edit it, though!

AG/DC Jun 09 2008 09:07 AM

I like it. Joelmon would use symbols and insults. Mets + $ = Cleveland - Hafner, idots.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 09 2008 09:45 AM

Heck, I don't see why the Mets would have to give anyone money in a Beltran deal. He was signed before the surge. It's still stupid expensive, but it's not all that bad in comparison. Plus, he's three years into the deal. I can see a deal for someone like Nady, but Coors made even the likes of Kaz Matsui look like a hitter so I'd avoid taking anyone from there. The problem with us making a deal is I don't think we have much to offer after clearing out the system for Santana. I sure don't want to see them deal F-Mart for a fourth outfielder.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2008 09:54 AM

Flawed as he is, I think Oliver Perez is our best trade chip right now.

sharpie Jun 09 2008 10:11 AM

Perez is, however, a free agent after this season. Therefore, the teams that might want to trade for him would be the same kind of team we are, those looking to get over the hump into the playoffs, "we'll worry about re-signing him after the season" types.

Willets Point Jun 09 2008 10:14 AM

That and with whom do we replace Perez in the rotation? The #4 & 5 slots are iffy at best and without Perez that leaves only Santana and Maine as reliable starters plus the oft-injured Martinez.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 09 2008 10:20 AM

Not 4 Nothing but Tony Armas Junior is kicking ass at AAA.

Gwreck Jun 09 2008 10:53 AM

You could also give the spot back to Vargas.

Rockin' Doc Jun 09 2008 10:57 AM

Willets Point wrote: ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Matt Holliday - Coors Field = Mark Kotsay - ability to play CF Matt Holliday - Coors Field <Jeremy> Mark Kotsay Carlos Beltran > Jeremy Burnitz Mets > Mets - Carlos Beltran + Matt Holliday Woah, I haven't seen mathematics like that since the time of Joelman. Except Firecracker's math actually made sense. I generally had a difficult time following Joelman's arguments. Joelman was always good for a few laughs though. He spoke a language all his own.

Willets Point Jun 09 2008 11:06 AM

Rockin' Doc wrote: Except Firecracker's math actually made sense. I generally had a difficult time following Joelman's arguments. Joelman was always good for a few laughs though. He spoke a language all his own. Agreed. I had no intention of denigrating Firecracker's logic, just the use of word-math was similar.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2008 11:18 AM

Willets Point wrote: That and with whom do we replace Perez in the rotation? The #4 & 5 slots are iffy at best and without Perez that leaves only Santana and Maine as reliable starters plus the oft-injured Martinez. I'd say that a rotation of Santana, Maine, Martinez, Pelfrey, and Vargas isn't noticeably worse than a rotation of Santana, Maine, Martinez, Perez, and Pelfrey. Problem with that, though, is if Martinez goes on the DL again, we have a bit less depth. But Armas is an option. And it's even possible that Orlando Hernandez will return. (Not likely, perhaps, but possible.)

Nymr83 Jun 09 2008 01:29 PM

]Matt Holliday - Coors Field = Mark Kotsay - ability to play CF thats a load of shit. his career OPS+ is 130, a ballpark-neutral stat.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 09 2008 01:55 PM

Nymr83 wrote: his career OPS+ is 130, a ballpark-neutral stat. True. And yet, his away numbers are [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=hollima01#locat-hmvis]garbage[/url] (for a corner outfielder). Why? I'm gonna need to do some research and I can't right now (something about not getting fired), but my hypothesis is that Matt Holliday's numbers improve at Coors much more than the rest of the league. I'll check this out when I get home. My fiancee can't fire me, right?

AG/DC Jun 09 2008 01:58 PM

My experience says not to count on that.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 09 2008 02:02 PM

My impression of Holliday, using my proprietary EM (Eyewitness Metrics) statistics, indicates that although he can hit some he's a terrible fielder and awful baserunner and future fat-ass. I will credit Omar for taking better care than previous front officers in avoiding these types.

Rockin' Doc Jun 09 2008 04:58 PM

Omar tends to prefer the decrepit and previously broken down.

AG/DC Jun 09 2008 05:07 PM

I think the main suspect in that regard is Moises. I don't think that pattern pre-exixted with a lot of others. Valentin, I guess. Armas is leading the organzation in ERA and has had something like 10 straight quality starts. I'm fine with injecting him into the rotation. I think too much is made of having five reliable pitchers in the rotation. (1) Reliability is relative. (2) A quest for reliablity can be over-conservative and can keep you from finding the diamond in the rough. (3) Bad batting can hurt you every day.

Rockin' Doc Jun 09 2008 06:42 PM

AG/DC - "I think the main suspect in that regard is Moises. I don't think that pattern pre-exixted with a lot of others. Valentin, I guess." Orlando Hernandez qualifies as well, at least in my mind. Castillo and his gimpy knees are a likely future candidate. I agree with you that Armas has earned a shot should a spot in the rotation open up for some reason. The inconsistent offensive production of the line up is the biggest problem facing the Mets. They are desperately lacking in offensive production from the corner outfield positions and first base. Omar needs to find a bat that is capable of providing some pop off the bench and be able to fill in for Alou or Church. I have no idea who might be available, I just hope it's not another aged veteran.

Nymr83 Jun 09 2008 07:08 PM

Hernandez and Castillo are good candidates. I like Alou because he's good when healthy and is only signed a yearat a time. If Alou had gotten a multi-year deal I'd be ripping Omar, but he's a smart gamble for the year.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 10 2008 06:31 AM

Ok, so I'm an idiot. I was looking around to see how Coors Field affects league OPS for a half an hour before I realized that's what Park Factor measures. Duh. Anyway, Coors has a park factor of 108, meaning, unless I'm mistaken, a hitter should see an 8% offensive boost playing in Denver. Matt Holliday has a tOPS+ of 131 at home, meaning he gets a 31% boost to his overall offensive numbers at home. For whatever reason, maybe he likes the hitter's eye or the mountain air or something, in addition to the normal Coors field boost, Holliday gets another 23% playing at home. So, if he loses that huge extra boost to his stats playing for another team, his overall OPS+ would drop from 130 to 119 (130-(23/2)). So maybe Mark Kotsay - defense is a little harsh. Torii Hunter - defense is about right. However, I think that, due to the extreme nature of his home/away splits, you would need to be optimistic to expect a 119 OPS+ from someone with a .780 career OPS away from Coors. At any rate, no way would I trade one of the 5 overall best centerfielders in the game for a player who very possibly might only be an overall league average leftfielder.