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The Incredible Hulk TV show

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AG/DC Jun 16 2008 11:36 AM

Judge this thing, if you will, on a continuum of other drama/action shows.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2008 11:45 AM

I gave it 2 stars. I watched it for a while, out of loyalty and affection for the character, but it didn't hold my interest and I bailed on it long before it went off the air. The Hulk looked silly. He didn't talk. He just stood there and growled and threw things. (At least, that's how I remember it.) I know that there are a bunch of people who love the Hulk because of this series, but I already had my own notions about the character and this series didn't live up to them. I was asked to rate it in relation to other action shows, which is why I gave it the two stars. Had I been asked to rate it compared to the comic books, I would have given it one star.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 16 2008 11:45 AM

I used to watch it. It was way too formulaic, but I kinda liked the overarching theme of lonely-antihero-on-the-run. He shows up in a new town at the begiining of the ep and hoofs it out of there at the end. In between I don't remember any "plot" expept him turning into the hulk usually 2X a show, and then stealing clothes from a clothesline. I also liked the beginning. "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry..."

TransMonk Jun 16 2008 11:57 AM

I miss the formula of late 70s early 80s hour long adventure shows. Every week would be a new story that was usually unrelated to last week or next week. These days, if you miss an episode of an hour long TV series, you might as well stop watching for the season and rent the DVD for a weekend 6 months later. Way too much of a commitment for me. Give me The Hulk, Dukes of Hazard, The A Team and The Fall Guy.

AG/DC Jun 16 2008 12:02 PM Edited 5 time(s), most recently on Jun 17 2008 01:34 PM

The overarching plot was him staying one step ahead of an investigative reporter ("Mr. McGee," who was the one that shouldn't make David angry), working for a National Enquirer-type paper, because no other paper would indulge his pursuit of a fantastical story that's widely considered urban myth. Banner tried to find jobs that would get him access to bio labs so he could sneak in at night and do research to cure him of Type A Hulkism. One week he would be an NFL assistant trainer. Another he would be a zoo mainenance officer. The plot that defined each episode is what made it good. It had all the elements of The Fugiitve before it: handsome troubled hero, pursued by a booze-faced antagonist with bad hair who isn't evil but just trying to do his job, wandering from town to town across the American landscape as a doctor in vagobond clothes, fixing the ruptures in the Amerian fabric one troubled family at a time. Like the fugitive (Dr. Richard Kimball), Bruce was the ideal man to the cast of sad women on the show --- troubled but unattainable, handsome but dangerous, his lostness and squareness triggering maternal instincts, but his doctorness showing he could be the ideal protector and provider in a world of brute cruelty and hard realities. And he was the real brute! When he stuck a thumb out to go on to the next town and breathed in a heavy desperate breath (as a sad poigniant theme played), he often left behind a young woman with a broken heart, but a family ready to go on, thanks to the intervention of that brown-haired wanderer they leased their extra room to for a few weeks.

metirish Jun 16 2008 12:16 PM

I remember loving it and I think I was pretty sure that there were people like him in America.

AG/DC Jun 16 2008 12:24 PM

Dr. David Banner, Physician/Scientist, searching for a way to tap into the hidden strengths that all humans have. Then an accidental overdose of gamma radiation interacts with his unique body chemistry. And now, when David Banner grows angry or outraged, a startling metamorphasis occurs. The creature is driven by rage and pursued by an investigative reporter. "Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." An accidental explosion took the life of a fellow scientist and supposedly David Banner as well. The reporter thinks the creature was responsible. "I gave a description to all the law enforcement agencies. They got a warrant for murder out of it." A murder which David Banner can never prove he or the creature didn't commit. So he must let the world go on thinking that he too is dead, until he can find a way to control the raging spirit that dwells within him.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2008 12:26 PM

See what I mean about how silly he looks?

AG/DC Jun 16 2008 12:44 PM

I like that he didn't talk. His level of mental ability was an ongoing theme. Could Banner control the beast? Was that his mind in there at all? Of course he looked ridiculous.

RealityChuck Jun 16 2008 01:36 PM

It was par for the course for TV superhero shows at the time, all of which had a long way to go to be mediocre. There really wasn't a particularly good TV superhero until Lois and Clark.

Vic Sage Jun 17 2008 01:30 PM

A brief history of live superhero (ie, non-animated) TV series: Adventures of Superman (1952-1958 / 104 episodes) - George Reeves survived the awful scripts, terrible ensemble acting and low budget production values to singlehandedly kept the superhero genre alive through the 1950s. Batman (1966-1968 / 120 episodes) - the unfairly maligned tv series was over-the-top camp, but was a cultural touchstone in its day. The spinoff of The Green Hornet as a secondary series only lasted 1 season, but debuted Bruce Lee to American audiences. Wonder Woman (1976-1979 / 60 episodes [60m]) - Lynda Carter defied gravity in more ways than one in this cherished series that delivered many young boys to manhood. Incredible Hulk (1978-1982 / 87 episodes [60m]) - Bill Bixby gave a superhero protagonist significant gravitas, somewhat emeliorating the silliness of the rest of the proceedings. Amazing Spider-man (1978-79 / 15 episodes [60m]) - short-lived and unmemorable Superboy (1988-92 / 100 episodes) - mediocre Flash (1990-91 / 21 episodes [60m]) - underrated tv series, with good effects. Lois & Clark (1993-97 / 88 episodes [60m]) - this hour long romantic comedy/drama was more "moonlighting" than "superman", but was surprisingly successful thanks to the chemistry of the leads, until it jumped the shark with a wedding. Smallville (2001-present / 152 episodes [60m]) - the most successful tv adaptation of a superhero ever, its basically "Smallville 90210". Witchblade (2001-02 / 23 episodes [60m]) - Didn't make it The Tick (2001-02 / 9 episodes) - one of my favorites, i must've been the only one watching. Birds of Prey (2002-03 / 13 episodes [60m]) - Bad adaptation; just an excuse to get some hot women into latex.... not that there's anything wrong with that... Blade (2006 / 12 episodes [60m]) - Really bad adaptation of good movie adaptation of minor comicbook character.

AG/DC Jun 17 2008 01:37 PM

Try and rank those in any way that doesn't include Hulkster in the top three or four. It can't be done!

AG/DC Jun 17 2008 01:43 PM

Wow, Vic forgot his new favoritest show ever, Heroes. Others that come to mind: Dataman and Holmes and Yo-Yo. Max Headroom was a quasi-superhero show also.

SteveJRogers Jun 17 2008 01:55 PM

Wow, Vic forgot his new favoritest show ever, Heroes. Others that come to mind: Dataman and Holmes and Yo-Yo. Max Headroom was a quasi-superhero show also. I think Vic was going for adaptations of comic book characters, rather than newly constructed characters for a TV program. Otherwise Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel should be on the top of the list as well.

AG/DC Jun 17 2008 01:59 PM

You're right.

Nymr83 Jun 17 2008 02:08 PM

Gave it a 2. its higher if you're only comparing it to other comic book based shows. it gets scored with a negative number when compared to something like the A-team.

AG/DC Jun 17 2008 02:10 PM

The A-Team didn't have a protagonist with significant gravitas.

cooby Jun 17 2008 02:15 PM

I liked the show a lot; my husband and I watched it together when we were young... How funny was it that a guy that hitchhikes from town to town with one shirt and pants (obviously mended over and over and over) can just walk into a medical position without any references?

RealityChuck Jun 17 2008 06:28 PM

I actually was going to mention The Flash, which was pretty good. The George Reeves Superman was good, if somewhat one-dimensional. Batman was a comedy about a superhero show, not really a superhero show. You also forgot The Green Hornet. The Tick (2001-02 / 9 episodes) - one of my favorites, i must've been the only one watching. You can still watch: [url]http://www.hulu.com/the-tick (Yes, it's legal). I've been catching up, but it's funnier in concept than when it's played out on screen. And you've forgotten the best superhero show of them all: Buffy the Vampire Slayer

AG/DC Jun 17 2008 06:31 PM

He didn't forget Green Hornet. It's in his Batman synopsis. Rogers covers Buffy. You spend a week watching Superman, and I'll spend one watching The Incredible, and we'll see who goes nuts first.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2008 06:50 AM

I'll spend my week watching Flash. That, for me, was the most enjoyable show on the list.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 18 2008 07:10 AM

I never watched Shazam! or the Shazam!/Isis Hour, but I remember them.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2008 07:12 AM

I remember them too. That show may belong in a different category, since it was a Saturday morning kids show, and wasn't made for prime time.

AG/DC Jun 18 2008 07:23 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 18 2008 07:41 AM

Shazam! also had themes, like The Fugitive and The Incredible Hulk, of traveling across the American landscape, repairing the social fabric. Two odd things about Shazam! 1) Billy Batson bounced across the southwest in an RV with Captain Marvel's lightning bolt painted on the front. How did people not figure out his was the Cap? 2) His lone companion was a white-haired guy wearing neck scarves. Even in my innocent childhood, I sensed something odd about their arrangement. A Marlon Perkins-looking pensioner and a Native American-looking skinny teenage longhair, bouncing across the countryside in an RV with no explanation of their relationship? bound to raise some eyebrows.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 18 2008 07:35 AM

It was a joke that Shazam wasn't actually the name of the superhero, but Captain Marvel. And it was very dumb that they had different actors playing Shazam and his alter-ego.

AG/DC Jun 18 2008 07:45 AM

I think that was the concept of the comics, that Billy and the Captain weren't actually the same guy, but two guys who swapped places or something. They did switch the actors who played Captain Marvel part-way through the series. As typical, I would accept no substitutes. That narrator voice is familiar. Is that the Batman narrator, or maybe Adam West himsself?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2008 08:57 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It was a joke that Shazam wasn't actually the name of the superhero, but Captain Marvel. And it was very dumb that they had different actors playing Shazam and his alter-ego. In the comics, Billy Batson is a kid, a paperboy, whose alter-ego is the big grown-up superhero Captain Marvel. If they stayed true to that, then they'd pretty much have to have two actors. I don't remember, though, was Billy Batson a kid in that series?

AG/DC Jun 18 2008 09:00 AM

Look at the (great) clip of the opening. He's teenager who appears to be Native American.

Vic Sage Jun 18 2008 11:38 AM

i didn't include "fictional" superhero shows, only adaptations of pre-existing comic book characters. Once you go down the road of defining the superhero genre more broadly, things get very subjective. But of course HEROES and BUFFY would be on the list, as well as 60s relics like CAPTAIN NICE and MR. TERRIFIC; 70s shows like ELCTRA WOMAN & DYNA GIRL, MAN FROM ATLANTIS, the BIONIC WOMAN, and SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN; 80s shows like GREATEST AMERICAN HERO, MISFITS OF SCIENCE, MY SECRET IDENTITY and KNIGHT RIDER; 90s shows like SUPERFORCE, ADVENTURES OF PETE & PETE and MUTANT X. I did miss SHAZAM (1974-76 / 28 episodes), as well as: *NIGHTMAN (97-98 / 44 episodes) *SABLE (1987 / 7 episdodes) *SWAMPTHING (1990-93/ 72 episodes) Shazam was pretty awful, even for a saturday morning kids show.

Nymr83 Jun 18 2008 12:28 PM

of course once you are including those shows i think "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys ('95-99)" is included as well and is in my mind at the front of the pack.

Willets Point Jun 18 2008 01:05 PM

Where does Spiderman on the Electric Company fall into the tv superhero continuum?

Vic Sage Jun 18 2008 01:07 PM

But that's what i mean... once you go down that road, is any fantasy story then eligible as a "superhero" story? Hercules is an ancient greek myth. He has no secret identity, no costume per se, no "headquarters" or "lair". Is he a superhero? Clearly, he's "super" and he's a "hero"... but a "superhero"? It's harder to say. writer Kurt Busiek has said that there are five chief elements to a story that make it a "superhero story": 1. A superhuman ability (or several); 2. A nickname or code-name; 3. A costume; 4. A quest; 5. A milieu -- a catch-all for parts of the superhero environment such as a secret headquarters, an arch-villain, and other such staples. Busiek's rule is that if a story has three out of five of those elements, it can be fairly called a superhero story. So, how would you categorize "Hercules" under this narrower definition? Obviously, he has superhuman strength (#1) and, while he doesn't have a single overarching quest, he leads a heroic life, so maybe you can grant him #4. But he has no definitive costume, name (other than his own) or superheroic milieu. As a half-mortal, he does not reside in Olympus, and tbough he vanquished certain monsters, he has no recurring villain. Now contrast Hercules with Thor, another god of antiquity, but one who falls much more within classic "superhero" definitions. * As the god of thunder, he has superpowers; * in the Marvel comics version, he has a secret identity ... Dr. donald Blake (or whoever it is they use now); * his costume includes the norse helmet and his mighty hammer, Mjolnir, * his quest is the protection of Midgard (earth); * his milieu includes his fellow Norse gods, the realm of Asgard, and his villianous brother Loki, with whom he is in constant conflict. Now, how about Tarzan?

AG/DC Jun 18 2008 01:12 PM

More importantly, limiting ourselves to primetime series adaptations of superhero stories, where does The Incredible Hulk rank. My prediction: if you're being honest, pretty high.

Vic Sage Jun 18 2008 02:11 PM

MY RANKINGs: 1) Adventures of Superman (1952-1958) 2) Batman (1966-1968) 3) Wonder Woman (1976-1979) 4) Incredible Hulk (1978-1982) 5) Flash (1990-91) 6) Lois & Clark (1993-97) 7) Smallville (2001-present) 8) The Tick (2001-02) 9) Superboy (1988-92) 10) Swampthing (1990-93) 11) Nightman (97-98) 12) Amazing Spider-man (1978-79) 13) Sable (1987) 14) Witchblade (2001-02) 15) Blade (2006) 16) Birds of Prey (2002-03) 17) Shazam! (1974-76)

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2008 02:15 PM

Strangely enough, I've never seen Smallville. Of the series Vic ranked, these are the ones I remember having watched, and my order of preference: 1) Adventures of Superman (1952-1958) 2) Flash (1990-91) 3) Lois & Clark (1993-97) 4) Wonder Woman (1976-1979) 5) Incredible Hulk (1978-1982) 6) Batman (1966-1968) 7) Shazam! (1974-76)

Willets Point Jun 18 2008 02:16 PM

the realm of Asgard He said "ass-guard."

AG/DC Jun 18 2008 02:17 PM

Really? You've got nothing good to say above about The Adventures of Superman, save for George Reeves bringing some big screen class to the small screen. (I agree.) But that's the best superhero adaptation ever? Lois wasn't sexy or smart. Perry White wasn't funny. Seemingly half the plots revolve around the bumbling professor causing the world to go kerflooey with a cheap camera trick. It's got none of the charm of the early cartoons that preceeded it. And that's the best superhero adaptation ever?

Nymr83 Jun 18 2008 02:29 PM

Vic Sage wrote: writer Kurt Busiek has said that there are five chief elements to a story that make it a "superhero story": 1. A superhuman ability (or several); 2. A nickname or code-name; 3. A costume; 4. A quest; 5. A milieu -- a catch-all for parts of the superhero environment such as a secret headquarters, an arch-villain, and other such staples. Busiek's rule is that if a story has three out of five of those elements, it can be fairly called a superhero story. So, how would you categorize "Hercules" under this narrower definition? Obviously, he has superhuman strength (#1) and, while he doesn't have a single overarching quest, he leads a heroic life, so maybe you can grant him #4. But he has no definitive costume, name (other than his own) or superheroic milieu. As a half-mortal, he does not reside in Olympus, and tbough he vanquished certain monsters, he has no recurring villain. Batman doesn't even meet #1 The TV Hercules DOES have recurring villains: his brother Ares, his stepmother Hera, and to some extent Xena and Zeus. He might even be described as having a quest, or several quests. Its been awhile since i saw the show (it ended in '99 and i never watched reruns) but the opening credits even say that he "journeyed the earth battling the minions of his wicked stepmother Hera." If i remember correctly the last season was spent on a big long quest around the world.

TransMonk Jun 18 2008 02:32 PM

What, no Greatest American Hero?

Vic Sage Jun 18 2008 03:26 PM

I've already acknowledged the many flaws of the original superman tv show, and maybe my preference is purely nostalgic. But so might yours be. But the reason I ranked it 1st is because there has yet to be, in my opinion, a particularly good superhero tv series based on any of the established characters, and i think the top 5 are all pretty much equally mediocre, in different ways. But in addition to my personal preference, there is the matter of cultural impact. You have to remember that, when Reeves was flying around on TV in the 1950s, superhero comics were being burned by PTA and church groups, banned from newsstands, preached and prosyletized against by minisiters and psychiatrists, and investigated by senate sub-committees. Comics had turned to romance, westerns and funny animals, as well as SF and horror (which had its own problems). So, that Reeves kept Superman flying as an American hero during this era was no small feat. I really didn't much like the HULK show. I certainly don't think its in any way superior to Batman or Wonder Woman. I think THE FLASH had the potential to eventually be the best tv adaptation ever. But it was not to be. All the best tv adaptations of comics have been animated. I'm still waiting for a good (not even great) live action one.

Vic Sage Jun 18 2008 03:33 PM

Batman doesn't even meet #1 Yes, but the point was to meet at least 3 out of 5, not all 5, criteria. I didn't watch the "hercules" tv show; i was discussing the mythic version, but if you can identify the defining criteria in the show, then that's fine by me. I wasn't arguing about it, just trying to establish some reasonable criteria for defining it. What, no Greatest American Hero? i did mention it, in the post above discussing "fictional" superhero tv shows. But its not an adaptation of an existing comic book character.

AG/DC Jun 18 2008 05:10 PM

I really didn't much like the HULK show. I certainly don't think its in any way superior to Batman or Wonder Woman. Well, I think it's superior in many ways. Batman is superior in many ways. I'll give Batman the top slot. It knew what it was and ran with it. Wonder Woman was all kinds of dumb, but initially pretty true to it's source material, and superior in one way --- it's the show that helped me discover my latent heterosexuality. So, that may be seen as one big way. Your point about The Adventures of Superman is well taken. I still defy anybody to choose it over your other three top choices as their viewing for a week --- what with his flat chest and jingo propaganda. But you're right that there's a compelling case for all of your top four as number one. I guess we should have The Lone Ranger in there, as he qualifies on four of five traits in the Kurt Busiek test. When I was a kid, WPIX (I think) ran re-runs of Batman/Superman/Lone Ranger back-to-back-to-back after school (I wasn't big on homework), and I found the LR episodes more watchable than Supe even then. Check it out --- they had a brand new episode every week! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lo ... n_Episodes

TransMonk Jun 18 2008 11:23 PM

Vic Sage wrote: i did mention it, in the post above discussing "fictional" superhero tv shows. But its not an adaptation of an existing comic book character. You did...completely missed it, my bad.

metsmarathon Jun 19 2008 06:22 AM

c'mon... what about my secret identity? no love for jerry o'connell?

Vic Sage Jun 19 2008 09:37 AM

mm, it is mentioned. see above. as for LONE RANGER, it was, like GREEN HORNET, not a comic book character adaptation. It was a radio program, adapted to tv. There were subsequent Lone Ranger comic book adaptations (just as there was of Tarzan, and other pulp characters either from literature, radio or films), but the character didn't start as a 4-colored 2 dimensional superheroe whose adventures were told in sequenced panels. Interestingly, GREEN HORNET wss actually a spinoff of the LONE RANGER, with the Hornet being Britt Reid, nephew of the Lone Ranger - Captain John Reid Now an argument can certainly be made that FLASH GORDON deserves mention, since Alex Raymond's character began as a newspaper comic strip in 1934, pre-dating the comic book superhero. But if you include it, there is only a terrible 1954 series, and a terrible 2007 series, both of limited duration, low ratings and negative critical reaction.

AG/DC Jun 19 2008 09:53 AM

Bidi Bidi Buck Rogers, I thought should qualify then. But wikipedia tells me he began life as Anthony Rogers in a pair of novellas, before he became a comic strip star.

Vic Sage Jun 19 2008 12:49 PM

superhero: the secret origin of a genreis a great book; a dissertation on the definitions of the genre. http://www.amazon.com/Superhero-Secret- ... 800&sr=1-1

SteveJRogers Jun 19 2008 03:41 PM

Defenders of the Batman series will say that it was doing what the comics were doing at the time. Batman wouldn't become the dark brooder the movies and animated series of the 80s and 90s until Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight" came along. I would say Hulk gets a ton of points off for me because of the way the they essentially created their own mythos for the Banner character. Hell, because "Bruce" is a "typical" homosexual name (whatever the hell that means) they changed the name to "David Banner." Which in hindsight probably did give the producers more license to make the show completely brand new, with no real relationship to any thing that ever happened in the comics. Although I believe Stark Industries gets a mention somewhere, but Tony/Iron Man is never mentioned. They did do some backdoor pilots for possible "spinoffs" for other Marvel based characters in the TV movies. The Return of The Incredible Hulk features Donald "Thor" Blake, I have not seen this to tell you much about how "true" they stick to Thor and Thor's mythos. The Trial of The Incredible Hulk (which features a young Michael Imperioli in a small role) does feature Matt "Daredevil" Murdoch and Wilson "Kingpin" Fisk (play by Rhys Davis, who seems a bit short for the role). While the characters do ring true for both Daredevil, (Daredevil's origin story and reason for being is the same as the comics) and Kingpin, the setting and ancillary characters are a bit off. 1) It is clearly not New York City/Hell's Kitchen. Looks like somewhere in the mid-west standing in for mid-town Manhattan in the middle of a lush area. 2) Not only is Murdoch seen to be a more high powered lawyer than his comic counterpart, they flip the sexes of their version of Foggy Nelson (Murdoch's partner) and Karen Page (their secretary). It is good, for a late 80s TV movie especially if you forget the fact that you aren't watching "Daredevil" and "Kingpin" from the comics, but rather this TV show's version of them.