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The Best Second Baseman in the NL East

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 19 2008 09:15 AM

While we're at it, here's a good one. I can tell you that his last name starts with a 'U', but past that, I don't know. Chase Utley: .294/.385/.606/152 OPS+/15 WS/37.7 VORP/11.8 WARP3 Dan Uggla: .288/.371/.627/161 OPS+/15 WS/37.9 VORP/11.3 WARP3 Wow, that's a toss-up if I've ever seen one. Of course, Uggla will be no where near any end of the season MVP talks, even if his team stays in the playoff picture, while all the writers will be all over Chase.

AG/DC Jun 19 2008 09:18 AM

President Bush was asked if he could pick any player in the league for his team (if he, you know, still had a team). He went with Utley.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 19 2008 09:20 AM

That, if nothing else, probably means that Uggla is better.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 19 2008 09:24 AM

="Benjamin Grimm"]That, if nothing else, probably means that Uggla is better. Yeah, that works for me. Ladies and germs, the Best 2nd Baseman in the NL East:

AG/DC Jun 19 2008 09:24 AM

I'm going to go with W. I've seen enough of Florida to know how bad that defense has been. Uggla hit in the minors, and I'm guessing that it was defense that kept him so far out of Arizona's plans that Florida was able to grab him in the Rule V.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 19 2008 09:30 AM

Yeah, I'm gonna stand with POTUS as well, icky as it is. Met pitching completely shut down Uggla in that last series. He was a total nonfactor.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 19 2008 09:40 AM

WARNING!!! Going to the nebulous world of fielding statistics: Uggla: .983 F%/4.96 RFg/9 FRAA Utley: .982 F%/5.01 RFg/10 FRAA Any other numbers I should look up? I can't find Dewan's +/- for 2008, and I'm not sure if I even can, but I'm always willing to learn more about fielding stats. It looks like Uggla's D has improved this year, though.

Frayed Knot Jun 19 2008 10:27 AM

Amazing how close the offensive stats are for those two considering how far about the relative praise has been split -- especially considering how Utley hits in a MUCH better hitters' park.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 19 2008 10:43 AM Re: The Best Second Baseman in the NL East

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: While we're at it, here's a good one. I can tell you that his last name starts with a 'U', but past that, I don't know. Chase Utley: .294/.385/.606/152 OPS+/15 WS/37.7 VORP/11.8 WARP3 Dan Uggla: .288/.371/.627/161 OPS+/15 WS/37.9 VORP/11.3 WARP3 Wow, that's a toss-up if I've ever seen one. Of course, Uggla will be no where near any end of the season MVP talks, even if his team stays in the playoff picture, while all the writers will be all over Chase. Consider that Utley plays in an extreme hitters park, and Uggla plays in a park that leans toward pitchers.

seawolf17 Jun 19 2008 10:47 AM Re: The Best Second Baseman in the NL East

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Uggla plays in a park that leans toward pitchers. They should probably get an engineer in there to look at that. Someone could get hurt.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 19 2008 10:55 AM Re: The Best Second Baseman in the NL East

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Consider that Utley plays in an extreme hitters park, and Uggla plays in a park that leans toward pitchers. Yeah, but OPS+, WS, VORP and WARP are all tweaked to adjust for park (correct me if I'm wrong), and Dolphin Stadium has actually played neutral this year (park factor of 100 hitting, 101 pitching). It's really close.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 19 2008 12:01 PM Re: The Best Second Baseman in the NL East

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: ="metsguyinmichigan"]Consider that Utley plays in an extreme hitters park, and Uggla plays in a park that leans toward pitchers. Yeah, but OPS+, WS, VORP and WARP are all tweaked to adjust for park (correct me if I'm wrong), and Dolphin Stadium has actually played neutral this year (park factor of 100 hitting, 101 pitching). It's really close. I vote Uggla in a close one. Here's their road stats: Uggla 132/AB 10/2B 1/3B 10/HR 15/BB .318/.395/.636 Utley 139/AB 11/2B 1/3B 6/HR 19/BB ..288/.395/.511

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 19 2008 12:32 PM

Would any of you choose Uggla over Utley if you needed a 2Bman today?

attgig Jun 19 2008 12:44 PM

from baseball-reference's "Neutralized and Converted Stats" [url]http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/equiv_stats.shtml[/url] top is utley, bottom is uggla. [code:1:859ceb854f] Year Ag G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB Avg OBP SLG OPS RC ActG 2008 29 162 621 114 185 40 4 49 126 74 94 13 .298 .390 .612 1.002 142 74 2008 28 155 590 124 174 53 2 49 117 74 189 9 .295 .378 .641 1.019 142 69[/code:1:859ceb854f]

Vic Sage Jun 19 2008 01:52 PM

These stats are based on less then half a season worth of production. I'll take Utley. I think he is more likely to sustain his production, while Uggla is more likely to drop. Utley also seems the better all-around player, with superior speed and D. Uggla is more of a slugger.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 19 2008 02:00 PM

I thought that the question posed was who was having the best season, to date.

Vic Sage Jun 19 2008 02:37 PM

oh, i didn't see that as the question being posed. All i saw was a thread entitled "the best 2bman in the NL East", and Lunchbucket's question: ]Would any of you choose Uggla over Utley if you needed a 2Bman today? I wouldn't. If the discussion is limited to who has had the best season in the division so far this year, then i'll concede its a tossup so far.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 19 2008 02:47 PM

Yeah, I was sort of trying to get to my way of thinking, where if you're choosing between two guys with similar numbers, go to the simple visceral evaluations: Who looks better? Who would you rather build a team around? If talent were bullets, who'd commit the more gruesome shopping mall shoot-em-up?

AG/DC Jun 19 2008 02:49 PM

President Bush didn'treally put it that way.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 19 2008 02:59 PM

By "best", I was going for a "best right now" kind of thing, like if you were picking out an all-division team, who would be your second baseman kind of thing. If I could have Utley or Uggla for the next five years at a similar price, I'd take Utley in a heartbeat, based mostly on a longer track record, but for this season it's neck and neck. Of course, Uggla could possibly be better over the next five years- he's a year and a half younger, he doesn't have any injury history, and he seems to be Utley's equal right now... I'd still take Utley, but it's pretty close.

Rockin' Doc Jun 19 2008 07:53 PM

Lunchbucket - "Would any of you choose Uggla over Utley if you needed a 2Bman today?" No, I wouldn't. Their seasons are remarkably similar thus far, but over the long haul, I expect Utley to be the better overall player.