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Willie on Willie; Adam on Willie

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2008 08:26 AM

Today's Snooze is jampacked with more Willie stuff including an as-told-to bylined cover story where Willie reveals he was blindsided and stays away from saying anything outrageous but remembers to mention his contract prevents him from doing so. Far better is Adam Rubin's "analysis" peice in which he exposes Willie as churlish, stubborn and paranoid; and, more interestingly, that Bernazard could be Omar's successor. After reading this, sounds like the whole Bernazard is a bad guy image was propogated by Randolph through his buddies in the press. Rubin says the Wilpons like Bernazard, who espouses homegrowing the system and who argued against including Guerra in the Santana trade. All very interesting. Willie: [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/20/2008-06-20_willie_randolph_opens_up_after_his_recen-3.html[/url] Adam: [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/19/2008-06-19_with_omar_minaya_on_the_hot_seat_now_ton.html[/url]

metirish Jun 20 2008 08:39 AM

I read the opening paragraph then scanned the rest of Randolph's piece , how could he have never seen it coming yet he says he was hoping to make it too the All Star break or even the yankee series. I'm sick of hearing how Willie is all class here on this , no he's not.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2008 09:19 AM

I wonder: Could the Mets have gotten Santana without including Guerra? (They would surely have had to have replaced him in the package with someone else.) Or would Bernazard have let the deal collapse over Delois Guerra? Interesting stuff.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 20 2008 09:24 AM

Randolph was an inept manager. And that should be the main focus here. There's also a sidebar link on Rubin's page declaring Derek Jeter to be baseball's most overrated player, according to a player's poll.

AG/DC Jun 20 2008 09:25 AM

]I cleaned out my office at Shea Stadium Thursday afternoon. My name was already off the door. I packed up all my keepsakes and photos of Jackie Robinson and Josh Gibson and other Negro League stars, boxed them up, and then my son, Andre, and I hauled it all into my car. He boxed up his son?

bmfc1 Jun 20 2008 09:32 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I wonder: Could the Mets have gotten Santana without including Guerra? (They would surely have had to have replaced him in the package with someone else.) Or would Bernazard have let the deal collapse over Delois Guerra? Interesting stuff. The way I understood it was that the Mets told the Twins that they would include Guerra to get Santana. When the Twins said that they were ready to deal, Omar knew that the Twins had no alternatives so he could have pulled back Guerra from the deal. However, he didn't think that was the right thing to do so he kept his word.

metirish Jun 20 2008 09:35 AM

I never heard that take on the deal , if that is the case Minaya should be fired.

AG/DC Jun 20 2008 09:37 AM

I don't know Bernezard from Adam, but I think he's fair in assessing Willie and his insecurities, and I kind of wish that his newfound looseness hadn't been too little, too late.

Fman99 Jun 20 2008 09:43 AM

Wow. The Mets front office could fuck up a wet dream.

soupcan Jun 20 2008 09:45 AM

bmfc1 wrote: The way I understood it was that the Mets told the Twins that they would include Guerra to get Santana. When the Twins said that they were ready to deal, Omar knew that the Twins had no alternatives so he could have pulled back Guerra from the deal. However, he didn't think that was the right thing to do so he kept his word. ="metirish"]I never heard that take on the deal , if that is the case Minaya should be fired. He should be fired because he chose to be ethical rather than ruthless? Tough room, irish, tough room.

Frayed Knot Jun 20 2008 10:00 AM

Good for Adam for at least painting Bernazrd with some living breathing traits (good, bad, or somewhere in between) rather than just starting with the "fact" that he's pure evil and therefore is responisble for everything short of gas prices and the inability to find Bin Laden.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2008 10:01 AM

Yeah, really. I wouldn't fire a guy for being ethical.

Vic Sage Jun 20 2008 10:07 AM

GMs have to deal with each other on a regular basis. You pull a move like that, you get a bad rep and its harder to do business. So it would not only have been unethical, it would've been short-sighted and self-defeating.

AG/DC Jun 20 2008 10:09 AM

Why am I supposed to mad about the Santana deal now? I think I should just decide to stay mad and then find factlets along the way to justify it. The Mets don't get superstars the Mets don't grow players the Mets should sandbag their manager the Mets suck for sandbagging their manager play the kids not the sucky kids the Mets are trying to be like the Yankees the Mets should try to be like the Yankees Heilman sucks Heilman should be a start Heilman sucks because he doesn't ge to start Wah, fucking wah.

metirish Jun 20 2008 10:11 AM

Vic Sage wrote: GMs have to deal with each other on a regular basis. You pull a move like that, you get a bad rep and its harder to do business. So it would not only have been unethical, it would've been short-sighted and self-defeating. I didn't think about it like that , makes sense and one reason why I will never be Emir of the Mets.

AG/DC Jun 20 2008 10:14 AM

Help me out. Why would the Twins have "no alternative"? Bill Smith can't call another team and say, "The fucking Mets are dicking me around. Do you want to put your package back on the table?"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2008 10:22 AM

Not for nothing but isn't the idea that the Mets have no farm system under Omar slightly overblown, at least in terms of the Mets historically? Seems like the Mets over the last decade have been in a constant state of having a rather shallow farm system. I'm not gonna argue what we have is great but whether what we have differs all that much than what we have had for years now. Has there been a time, for example, when they've had 3 AA hitters having such good years like Murphy, Evana and Carp? Niese looks like he might be able to help at some point, Kunz could help the pen at some point and F-Martinez, while a few years away, is considered a potential star. Along with the replenishments coming via the draft and international, I can't image it sucks that much.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2008 10:26 AM

I think the only problem with the farm is for short-term needs. When the Mets had a few guys on the DL, there were few players ready to step in and play in the majors. Having to promote guys like Nick Evans made the system look worse than it is.

AG/DC Jun 20 2008 10:32 AM

Having no faith whatsoever in guys with the AAAA hitter label also makes the system look worse than it is.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2008 10:34 AM

Tatis is getting pretty good shot.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2008 10:41 AM

Yes, Tatis has been a success. And so have Raul Casanova and Carlos Muniz. It's just that the farm system wasn't deep enough to replace Pagan AND Alou AND Church all at the same time. I would bet that most farm systems wouldn't be, but the Mets had that weakness exposed. The other rap against the farm system has been that there's not much trading fodder left. That was probably true on February 2, when the Mets made the Santana deal, especially since Fernando Martinez was deemed virtually untouchable. But that kind of thing can take care of itself in time. Now the Mets have a bunch of young guys who are establishing themselves as prospects, and thereby increasing their trade value. I would suspect that if the Mets wanted to trade youth for an established player this winter, they'd be able to put something together again.

AG/DC Jun 20 2008 10:44 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 20 2008 10:53 AM

Yeah, well, I'm going to convolute my position to the point of meaninglessness by pointing out that he (1) waited a year and a half, (2) was an old Montreal guy originally signed by the Rangers (Omar's DNA all over the crime scene), so I'm thinking his sneaking through the gate doesn't water down my feeling all that much. I'd like to have seen a couple of the other hot batsmen in New Orleans get a shot also. I agree with you that the scarcity of the system is overblown. We too often judge these things on a black-white basis of "stacked" or "barren." It's a pretty complex continuum.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2008 10:47 AM

Yeah. Then again, I was going to try to make an argument for Aguila over Trot, and I really couldn't.

Frayed Knot Jun 20 2008 10:48 AM

Farm systems also tend to be somewhat cyclical. Not that we had a top system to begin with - but when you mix the promotion and/or trades of the likes of Milledge, Pelfrey, Gomez, Humber, Mulvey, and Guerra within about a 12-month period along with a lack of top draft picks due to top-half finishes and the signings of Alou, Wagner & Beltran, the system tends to take a hit.

soupcan Jun 20 2008 10:51 AM

But isn't the goal of a good farm system also the ability to produce good players to trade to acquire good players? And isn't that what the Mets were able to do in the Santana deal? Seems like critics are wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

AG/DC Jun 20 2008 10:54 AM

Its certainly A goal. I agree about the cake.

holychicken Jun 20 2008 11:45 AM

I hear there is cake in this thread. Can I have some please? AND eat it?

metsguyinmichigan Jun 20 2008 12:03 PM

Nice story by Rubin, probably the best piece I've seen about the whole thing. As for the farm system, it was deep enough to allow them to trade five players for the best pitcher in the game and still hold on to the top prospect. I don't think any team is able to pull up a major-league ready prospect after every injury, especially after a rash of injuries. That's why they keep the AAAA guys around. Just be glad we still don't have Jose Offerman and Ice Williams!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2008 12:23 PM

By the way, can anyone find the thread where the CPF reacted to Willie's Hiring? It would be in Nov. 04 -- prior to the meltdown. I visted the old EZboard place but it's a wreck -- they are finally replacing the EZB with a new software and name and look.

G-Fafif Jun 20 2008 02:31 PM

The real victim in the Willie story in the News is Wayne Coffey, its author and the as-told-to writer on the planned autobiography of the former Mets manager. Think maybe the market for that has sagged?

Mex17 Jun 20 2008 03:05 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 20 2008 03:25 PM

If we are very, very lucky than Randolph is as inept, clueless, delusional, paranoid, arrogant, "entitled", not nearly as "classy" in real life as the "Pride and Pinstripes" folks would have us believe, and difficult to work with as his worst moments would seem to indicate that he is. If it is all true than I will not feel as bad over the perceived organizational problems (Bernazard, Jeff Wilpon, the indecision and eventual ruthlessness over how this was handled.) If Willie was really that bad than the perceived badness of what remains diminishes.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2008 03:19 PM

G-Fafif wrote: The real victim in the Willie story in the News is Wayne Coffey, its author and the as-told-to writer on the planned autobiography of the former Mets manager. Think maybe the market for that has sagged? I think the martyrdom of Willie is actually a good thing for Coffey -- and better for Willie than it might have been were he gently let off with dignity at a reasonable hour in New York but on a losing streak. Think of the selling angle: WILLIE My Repeatedly Unsuccessful Attempts to Get to the World Series vs. WILLIE My Inspiring Fight Against Injustice

TheOldMole Jun 20 2008 03:49 PM

A farm system's raw material is 18-21-year-old kids, which means it replenishes its resources pretty completely every three years. If you trade away four or five prospects, you're not bankrupting the farm system for a generation.

G-Fafif Jun 20 2008 04:43 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think the martyrdom of Willie is actually a good thing for Coffey -- and better for Willie than it might have been were he gently let off with dignity at a reasonable hour in New York but on a losing streak. Think of the selling angle: WILLIE My Repeatedly Unsuccessful Attempts to Get to the World Series vs. WILLIE My Inspiring Fight Against Injustice If the book comes out in ten minutes. Otherwise, it will be: WILLIE Remember That Thing That Was a Big Deal?

metirish Jun 20 2008 08:59 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: By the way, can anyone find the thread where the CPF reacted to Willie's Hiring? It would be in Nov. 04 -- prior to the meltdown. I visted the old EZboard place but it's a wreck -- they are finally replacing the EZB with a new software and name and look. I can't even find the old CPF at that YuKu place, I can find my old profile there but the CPF is not listed among my communities. I did find this fella there though , replete with yankee sig. http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?page=4&t=94648

G-Fafif Jun 21 2008 02:16 AM

According to the Daily News, I am one of the fans who says [url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/20/2008-06-20_fans_say_willie_randolphs_a_winner.html]Willie Randolph's a winner[/url]: ]"As fans we see guys in uniform as interchangeable pieces," said Greg Prince, 45, of Long Island. "But after a guy pours his heart like that, you see the human side of it. It sounds like there was a lot of miscommunication between him and the management. It's disappointing the way they handled it." While Ms. Angelova quoted me accurately -- I was wandering out of the Clubhouse Store on 42nd St. and said, yes, I had read Willie's article in the News yesterday and yes, you can ask me about it -- I'd hardly say I was adding to a "host of hoorays" or seeing "poetic justice in his story". On the other hand, my name was spelled right.

TheOldMole Jun 21 2008 06:18 AM

No relation to Freddie, then?

AG/DC Jun 21 2008 06:28 AM

It wasn't that long ago in New York that being spotted "wandering out of the Clubhouse Store on 42nd St." was a pretty sleazy thing.

G-Fafif Jun 21 2008 01:42 PM

AG/DC wrote: It wasn't that long ago in New York that being spotted "wandering out of the Clubhouse Store on 42nd St." was a pretty sleazy thing. At the prices they charge, I felt a little dirty (though, in the parlance of Howie Rose, I didn't have the glue to buy anything in there).

metsguyinmichigan Jun 21 2008 02:11 PM

="G-Fafif"]According to the Daily News, I am one of the fans who says [url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/20/2008-06-20_fans_say_willie_randolphs_a_winner.html]Willie Randolph's a winner[/url]: ]"As fans we see guys in uniform as interchangeable pieces," said Greg Prince, 45, of Long Island. "But after a guy pours his heart like that, you see the human side of it. It sounds like there was a lot of miscommunication between him and the management. It's disappointing the way they handled it." While Ms. Angelova quoted me accurately -- I was wandering out of the Clubhouse Store on 42nd St. and said, yes, I had read Willie's article in the News yesterday and yes, you can ask me about it -- I'd hardly say I was adding to a "host of hoorays" or seeing "poetic justice in his story". On the other hand, my name was spelled right. I like the "of Long Island" part. Like it's a little town. He should have said "Greg Prince, 45, of (insert name of town on Long Island.) People who read the News are generally smart enough to recognize the names of places like Massapequa, Baldwin, Huntington, Freeport and so on.

G-Fafif Jun 21 2008 04:19 PM

To be fair, the reporter asked (since we were on 42nd and 5th) if I was from Manhattan. "Long Island," I blurted out, making it harder for Willie to find me if he wants to come over and commiserate. Long Island: my little town.

Frayed Knot Jun 22 2008 09:58 AM

]People who read the News are generally smart enough to recognize the names of places like Massapequa, Baldwin, Huntington, Freeport and so on. But not always smart enough to spell them. Meanwhile, back to the original topic; Newsda'ys [url=http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-sphot0622,0,815303.column]John Jeansonne[/url] takes a few swipes at the media blowing a collective circuit over L'affaire de Wille. There certainly was no shortage of numbskullian outrage from many among the same chattering classes who for weeks had been calling for Randolph's dismissal. That Mets general manager Omar Minaya proved to be anything but nimble in sending Randolph packing -- first literally, to the West Coast, then figuratively -- was obvious enough. But the act of firing a boss for his employees' underperformance hardly reached the level of "spinelessness" and "bullying" widely ascribed to it. The deed was not done via e-mail after 3 a.m., as many reports had it. (Minaya delivered the blow face-to-face when the Anaheim clocks had not yet struck midnight; it's just that reporters were informed of the move electronically and referenced Eastern time.) The article then goes on to consult various ethicists and business leaders who see nothing unusual or cruel about the firing.

AG/DC Jun 22 2008 11:49 AM

Wow. Facts. Who'da thunk?

SteveJRogers Jun 22 2008 12:33 PM

[url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/21/2008-06-21_willie_randolph_had_no_chance_with_mets_-2.html]Bill Madden still keeping Willie's flame burning by saying the Wilpons wanted Randolph out before even managing a game![/url] No mention of Randolph's first interview back during the Valentine replacement search days. Of course, because that little detail upsets the whole "Wilpons never wanted this guy to begin with" tact if Randolph was brought in when Phillips was still the GM.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2008 12:57 PM

][willie_randolph_had_no_chance_with_mets_-2.html-Bill Madden still keeping Willie's flame burning by saying the Wilpons wanted Randolph out before even managing a game! Fanning the Firing Fires I'm so sick of this. Does the media think that Randolph is forever entitled to be the Mets manager? Managerial stints end bad. All the time and for everyone. There are no exceptions. Whether you're Davey Johnson or Dallas Green. That's the nature of baseball. Once the Mets shed their lovable loser image, the pressure was on every single Met manager to win. Only Gil Hodges managed to escape an ugly ending. (Managed! - Get it?) And he'd give his life to have his stint end the way Randolph's did. Of course this presents a conundrum insofar as Gil lost the life he had to make that trade. And if he did have the life to trade, he wouldn'ta had it after the trade. He'd be a lifeless soul, disembodied from his team.

Gwreck Jun 22 2008 06:09 PM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Managerial stints end bad. All the time and for everyone. Tom Kelly of the Twins?

SteveJRogers Jun 22 2008 06:16 PM

Gwreck wrote: ="batmagadanleadoff"]Managerial stints end bad. All the time and for everyone. Tom Kelly of the Twins? They were about to be contracted!

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2008 06:27 PM

="Gwreck"] ="batmagadanleadoff"]Managerial stints end bad. All the time and for everyone. Tom Kelly of the Twins? No. Not Tom Kelly. Not when you leave on your own terms while on top, more or less. I should've wrote that all firings end up bad. And even then there are exceptions to every "all", and you'll probably go and find it. Still, this dismissal is all overblown and some sour grapes by Randolph. Like Irish said a few days ago, I wish Willie would just go away already.

metirish Jun 22 2008 06:56 PM

A different take on the firing here , it was Biblical in a way. ] Willie firing was standard procedure John Jeansonne | HOT TOPIC 7:43 PM EDT, June 21, 2008 Mets management might want to think of its critics, who all week hurled charges of cowardice and villainy in the Willie Randolph affair, the way playwright Eugene O'Neill did: "I love every bone in their heads." There certainly was no shortage of numbskullian outrage from many among the same chattering classes who for weeks had been calling for Randolph's dismissal. That Mets general manager Omar Minaya proved to be anything but nimble in sending Ran.dolph packing -- first literally, to the West Coast, then figuratively -- was obvious enough. But the act of firing a boss for his employees' underperformance hardly reached the level of "spinelessness" and "bullying" widely ascribed to it. The deed was not done via e-mail after 3 a.m., as many reports had it. (Minaya delivered the blow face-to-face when the Anaheim clocks had not yet struck midnight; it's just that reporters were informed of the move electronically and referenced Eastern time.) "I don't think it was cowardly," said Randy Cohen, who considers questions of morality and principle for National Public Radio and the New York Times Magazine as "The Ethicist." In what sense? "No one woke him up in the middle of the night. There was no slapping. If it was less than ideal, it didn't seem brutal. [The Mets] seem to have made a professional judgment. It was not as smooth and elegant as it might have been, but they didn't fail by much. Being imperfect is not being unethical." To Duke University cultural anthropologist Orin Starn, a keen observer of the sports universe, Randolph's termination of employment not only was very 21st-century American, it was downright Biblical. "It's part of mainline anthropology: the idea of the scapegoat," Starn said. "The word comes from the ancient Israelis, when the priest would lay hands on a goat and put all pains and troubles and sickness of the time into the goat, who'd then be sent into the wilderness to be eaten by lions." Straight from Leviticus and with roots in Yom Kippur ceremonies. "By making a sacrificial victim, by expelling somebody from the Garden of Eden, expelling him from his job, you make everything right again, make possible the idea of a new order," Starn said. With the team sandbagging against the rising floods of mediocrity, in the face of playoff expectations, sending Randolph into the baseball wilderness logically "fits with the America of the instant fix and CEO performance thing," Starn said. "If you don't get the job done, you're out. Those old guarantees of lifetime employment and a pension don't apply to anybody anymore." Where so much of the commentary on Randolph's treatment seemed to be at cross purposes was in the cries of injustice following so closely on the heels of salivating talk radio and tabloid death watches. It was Will Leitch, the snarkily observant Deadspin.com blogger, who wrote in New York magazine earlier this month that "for sports fans, collapses are much more fun than victories ... There's something delightfully retro and charming about the hunt for Randolph's hide." Leitch reasoned that "our teams are extensions of ourselves and, when they fail, we fail ... To hate your coach is to love your team." Ethicist Cohen saw "no blood on anybody's hands" in that scenario because "speculation about how to correct the team" came with Randolph's public job description. "Within the bounds of ordinary courtesy, emotional well-being is not the concern of the fans," Cohen said. "It's the concern of his family and his friends and his therapist." As a figure in the professional entertainment business, Randolph reasonably is "remote," on the human level, from those judging his performance. "It's certainly true," Cohen said, "that when you go to the movies, villains are more interesting than heroes, and tragedies are much more engaging than successes. What's to say about success? Nice going? So failure is more interesting in every way, because the outcome is still in doubt: How will we reverse this? We're headed for the rocks, and people's characters will reveal themselves." That Randolph suddenly became a sympathetic character no doubt was the result of Minaya's Kabuki theater, the bizarre path taken to confronting Randolph while Mets ownership stayed out of sight. Starn submitted that there might be "some racial angst, this unspoken subtext that this is an African-American guy who was known as a good guy, played by the rules, loved baseball and now was getting the shaft." Except, of course, Minaya is a minority himself, a man of color with Latino roots, and Randolph's replacement, Jerry Manuel, also is black. Which may leave us with very little to be critical about. "If everything were always going well," Leitch added via e-mail to Newsday, "fans would be bored and talk radio would be silent. Unless, of course, we're Boston. Which, fortunately, we're not." I never read or heard of this John Jeansonne before. http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-sphot0622,0,5404606.column

Frayed Knot Jun 22 2008 07:40 PM

]I never read or heard of this John Jeansonne before Well you would have had you read my link above. Johnsonne's been there for years doing mostly opinion and topical columns not limited to any one sport. In fact he'll usually be the one who tackles the other "non-major" sports for Newsday: Tour de France, World Cup soccer, track & other olympic sports, etc. On Madden's column; - it very well may be that there were anti-Willie forces hiding behind every potted plant at Shea. But it's also come to the point where I'm no longer just going to take his word for it as there have been enough instances in the last few years where he's gotten too many facts wrong for me to simply swallow this story whole. And it's not specifically his long ties to the Yanx that I think is coloring his slant in this case. But it does seem to me that he's at a stage where he simply takes one source's word on something and prints that as the way things are - either because he doesn't have the energy, skepticism and hunger of a younger journalist to check things out further, or he simply figures that 'I'm Bill Madden' and assumes that his sources are all on the level with him. Either way, his piece comes off like it was fed by a source or sources with at least as big an agenda as that of the anti-Willie cabal he purports to be outing.

metirish Jun 22 2008 07:48 PM

Funny , in my mind I thought I saw his name somewhere , and I did actually read your post. I'm losing it.

AG/DC Jun 22 2008 07:59 PM

The idea that the Wilpons let a guy they wanted nothing to do with manage their team for three and half seasons --- through the launching of a new network and toward the introduction of a new stadium --- is kind of hard to support isn't it? They're not crazy.

SteveJRogers Jun 22 2008 08:18 PM

Yeah, I'm amazed at the fact that Willie being brought in during the Valentine replacement interviews wasn't brought up as a counter argument. IIRC wasn't Randolph the frontrunner before Art Howe famously "lit up the room"? If that was the case, then Willie's hiring was a hiring that was deferred for 2 seasons.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 23 2008 06:59 AM

I don't recall him being a front-runner after the 2002 season, but I may just be forgetting. I don't recall much about that search that ended with Art Howe.

MFS62 Jun 23 2008 07:32 AM

="Frayed Knot"]The article then goes on to consult various ... and business leaders who see nothing unusual or cruel about the firing. I can believe that. I was a Michael Milkin poster boy of the 80's, worked for several companies and business units that got consolidated/ merged/ chopped up/ sold off. At one, the Personnel Department sent out an email on a Friday afternoon stating that "your job has been transferred to Portland Oregon (from Connecticut) as of Monday morning". It went on to say that "If you do not report to work on Monday, your absence will be considered a resignation". I'm not kidding. That happened. LAter

duan Jun 23 2008 08:04 AM

i really don't buy into the whole "the entire organisation goes round stabbing each other in the back all the time" kinda conspiracy theory. What's clear is, the collapse that happened last September reflected extremely badly on the manager. Everyone started to form views on why it happened, those views may/may not have included it being the managers fault. The team then didn't start as well as it might have and the media hysteria caused the organisation to start to re-evaluate the how long do we give ..... naturally people had different opinions. They could have used NOT talking to all and sundry about it, but people have leaky lips when they get friends in the media.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 23 2008 01:07 PM

From David Letterman's monologue: ] "The hookers in Times Square are offering a Willie Randolph special. For 50 bucks, they'll screw you in the middle of the night when nobody's looking."

bmfc1 Jun 23 2008 01:26 PM

Another Letterman monologue joke from last week (the quote is as accurate as I remember; I don't have a transcript): "Beautiful day in New York. It was so nice that the Mets were firing managers in the daylight."