Forum Home

Master Index of Archived Threads


Ryan Church Lawsuit?

Grote15
Jul 09 2008 08:17 PM

Being that the Mets flew Church coast to coast twice apparently without a proper examination wouldn't Church's agent be remiss to at least consult with a personal injury lawyer?

Lifetime earnings potential damages..Mets may have insured Church's contract but not for malpractice by Dr.'s employed by the Mets.

I don't think it will happen..but I also don't think its farfetched for Team Church to examine their options.

themetfairy
Jul 09 2008 08:22 PM

Assuming that team doctors asked Church how he was doing and Church, an athlete who wants to be in the game, said, "put me in, I'm read to play today," I'd think that there wouldn't be grounds for such a lawsuit.

Grote15
Jul 09 2008 08:25 PM

Good point..but Church is not a Doctor..I would think the Doctors would have grounded Church until the mystery is solved which I don't think it has.

Anyway..Get Jackie Chiles!! Wilpons on the hook for 50 mill

themetfairy
Jul 09 2008 08:29 PM

Sounds more like a Lionel Hutz kind of case ;)

Rockin' Doc
Jul 09 2008 08:31 PM

I hope I never find myself in court for a medical malpractice suit, but if I do, I'm quite sure that stating the patient said he was fine won't be of much value in my defense.

soupcan
Jul 09 2008 08:32 PM

How is gonna sue the Mets? They didn't just decide he was okay, they have a training staff a doctor was consulted.

themetfairy
Jul 09 2008 08:33 PM

It would depend a lot on the particular case. As you know, some medical issues are more cut and dry than others.

With a head injury, the patient's representations about his condition would have to be a big factor and doctors would have a certain justification in relying on that.

Nymr83
Jul 10 2008 12:25 AM

i'm not a doctor, are these types of injuries detectable to any degree of certainty? is it standard procedure to run whatever test could have detected them (if any) when the patient says he is fine?

themetfairy
Jul 10 2008 05:32 AM

I'm not a doctor either, but my understanding is that some brain injuries are hard to detect by current technology.

How many MRIs has Church been through this year? And they've all come up negative. That doesn't mean he's well (obviously he's not) - it just means that whatever he has isn't easily detectable with the tools we currently have.

In situations like that, the patient's representations become a bigger factor in the diagnosis process than with conditions that can be more easily verified (e.g., it wouldn't matter how much someone swears his arm feels fine if an X-ray were to show a fracture).

soupcan
Jul 10 2008 08:09 AM

]

July 10, 2008

Concussion Spurs Union to Request Guidelines

By ALAN SCHWARZ

The players union plans to approach Major League Baseball about developing formal leaguewide guidelines for managing concussions, a high-level union official said Wednesday.

The official, Michael Weiner, the union’s general counsel, said the conversation would not explore whether Ryan Church, the Mets’ right fielder who has been sidelined by postconcussion syndrome on and off for almost two months, was properly treated by the team’s medical personnel. But Weiner said Church’s case highlighted the challenge that concussions present, and how greater scrutiny of the injury could benefit players.

“We will reach out to the commissioner’s office to discuss Ryan’s situation and any lessons we might draw from it,” Weiner said in a telephone interview. “It has raised attention to the dangers of this injury, and we want to see whether we’re doing all we can or should be doing here.”

A baseball spokesman, Pat Courtney, said the commissioner’s office would be receptive to such discussions. Medical decisions remain the purview of individual clubs, but Courtney said team doctors discussed concussion treatment at last November’s general managers’ meetings. Courtney said that “we will revisit the issue this winter,” and that mandatory neuropsychological testing for players “would have to be part of the discussion.”

Church, who sustained his second concussion in three months on May 20, has been cleared to play three times by the Mets’ medical staff, only to have postconcussion symptoms — like headaches, dizziness and exhaustion — return days later, forcing him to be benched again. In all, he has not played in 30 games since May 20. On Tuesday, he was placed on the disabled list for the second time. It is questionable whether he will return to play this season.

Church was not at Shea Stadium on Wednesday night, when the Mets played San Francisco. By the end of this week, he is expected to see a different neurologist than those who have examined him — primarily at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York, the team’s medical provider. Reached by phone, his agent, Jeff Borris, declined to identify that physician or comment on Church’s situation.

Weiner said he expected his primary interest in speaking with M.L.B. would be not to allege misconduct with Church, but to explore leaguewide protocols for concussions. Two players, Mike Matheny and Corey Koskie, have had to retire in the last two years because of postconcussion syndrome, and Church’s situation has raised eyebrows.

“There is a recognition that with concussions you can’t go by the subjective report of the player in the same way that you might a leg or elbow injury,” said Weiner, emphasizing that he was not referring to any specific player or team. “We would also want to discuss whether all clubs have access to appropriate specialists. We might want to jointly identify specialists in all the markets that teams could take advantage of.”

The apparent joint league and union interest in discussing concussion management suggests that M.L.B. may soon follow other major sports leagues in developing formal guidelines.

The N.F.L., which faced criticism last year from outside experts for its handling of player concussions, updated its protocols before the 2007 season. Players knocked unconscious were no longer allowed to return to games; a hot line allowed players to report if they were being coerced to play after a concussion; and neuropsychological testing both before a season and after a concussion were made mandatory for all teams.

The N.H.L. made such testing mandatory 10 years ago, and requires teams to wait until a player is free of symptoms at rest and after exertion before he is allowed to return to the ice.

The Mets began neuropsychological testing of players this spring training but did not test Church because of time restrictions — so doctors have no baseline performance to compare now.

At Shea Stadium on Tuesday, General Manager Omar Minaya said he retained full confidence in the team’s medical staff.

“We’ve gone through our medical people,” Minaya said. “They’re the experts. We’re not the experts.”

As much as Church’s injury has hurt the Mets on the field, it may have hurt him in the wallet more.

Church, 29, was batting .311 with 9 home runs and 32 runs batted in through the Mets’ first 43 games when he sustained his May 20 concussion. Had he immediately been placed on the disabled list for a month and then played at his former level for the rest of the season, he could have doubled or tripled his current $2 million salary in arbitration.

Because the collective bargaining agreement generally insulates teams and club officials from being held financially responsible for medical decisions, Church may not have a union-backed grievance as an option. He could bring a private lawsuit against one or more doctors who treated him.

The former Red Sox infielder Marty Barrett sued Dr. Arthur Pappas, who worked for the team, and in 1995 Barrett won $1.7 million for lost wages when a United States District Court jury ruled that Pappas had withheld from Barrett information about the severity of a knee injury.

themetfairy
Jul 10 2008 10:24 AM

Here's a concept, not as much from a legality perspective as from morality.

What should the role of Church's agent have been? Shouldn't he have been taking steps to make sure that his client's health was being properly attended to? Especially with a head injury, shouldn't the agent have been proactive about making sure that every possible step was being taken to assess Church's health?

AG/DC
Jul 10 2008 10:34 AM

Yes and yes.

The Mets, hearts pure as they may be, have a conflict of interest. Church's agent's priorities should be clear.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 10 2008 10:37 AM

Well, yes. But he also has financial incentive to do so. (The more money Church makes, the more money the agent makes.)

I can't imagine the agent being held liable for anything, unless he willfully caused Church to ignore medical advice. But you can't blame him for not being smarter than the doctors.

AG/DC
Jul 10 2008 10:41 AM

I'm just thinking that an agent would/should get the opinion of a doctor that isn't on the team's payroll.

Frayed Knot
Jul 10 2008 10:46 AM

Nice to see that the union is on top of things with the players' health when it comes to concussions after blatantly ignoring it for so long on the subject of steroids.


Overall, I believe there's something in the standard player contract where they have follow the advice of the team's physician(s) when it comes to being DL'd or whatnot, although they're always free to get a second opinion before undergoing a procedure.

Now if the team doc goes and witholds info from the player - as the NYTimes piece says in the Barrett case - that's obviously a different story.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 10 2008 10:47 AM

That's true.

If I was his agent, that flight from Atlanta to Denver would have been Church's last until he recovered. My biggest beef (and I mentioned it around here a few times) was how the Mets kept putting that poor guy in airplanes.

soupcan
Jul 10 2008 10:50 AM

Yeah, whats the deal with that? How does the flight affect him?

Why is it bad?

themetfairy
Jul 10 2008 10:51 AM

And my point BG is that if it was blatantly obvious to you (and I recall you were adamant on that point from the get-go), then shouldn't the agent have been more proactive on the subject?

AG/DC
Jul 10 2008 10:51 AM

It would have been interesting (and still might be going forward) to have the guy travelling seperately from the team by train. With the marority of the remaining games in the eastern time zone, he'd miss little action trying to pull it off.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 10 2008 11:01 AM

soupcan wrote:
Yeah, whats the deal with that? How does the flight affect him?

Why is it bad?


I think it has to do with the pressure changes.

I once flew with a bad cold and it left me nearly deaf for a day or so. It wouldn't have occurred to me not to let Church fly with a concussion, but after he said it bothered him after that Atlanta-Denver flight, I would not have had him fly again. But he kept flying with the team. He kept getting on planes and every time it made him feel worse.

I can forgive them that first flight. But once he felt the effects, it should have been ground transportation only from that point forward.

themetfairy
Jul 10 2008 11:05 AM

I couldn't find anything specifically on flying in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-concussion_syndrome]this Wikipedia article[/url] upon quickly skimming it, but it looks like it's possible that Church will need months to get back to normal.