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In other non-shocking news...

Fman99 Jul 10 2008 06:17 AM

Moises Alou left last night's minor league game with [url=http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080709&content_id=3104207&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym&partnerId=rss_nym]hamstring "cramping."[/url] How Zabka-esque. :sighs audibly:

metirish Jul 10 2008 06:31 AM

From the Snooze. ] Before hearing of the latest setback, Jerry Manuel was asked yesterday if Alou should take advantage of the All-Star break rather than try to return this weekend. "Take advantage of the break?" Manuel deadpanned. "He hasn't played in two months!"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 10 2008 07:24 AM

The Mets should just schedule "Moises Alou Day" and get it over with.

Centerfield Jul 10 2008 07:28 AM

Characteristics of Moises Alou day: No one shows up to work. Everyone gets paid anyway. Someone strains an eyelid blinking. Smelly hands.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 10 2008 07:38 AM

They really need to come off that position that they'll replace Church and Alou from within. It's entirely possible that neither one will be back at all this year. (I hope that's not the case, especially for Church, but it is possible.) Endy's been doing a nice job lately, but how far will this team go with him as their second-best outfielder? And a lot of starts from guys like Evans and Anderson and Tatis? They really do need to make a move, and they have three weeks left before the July 31 deadline.

seawolf17 Jul 10 2008 08:40 AM

I wanted to post a photo of Raul Ibanez, my latest trade crush, and found this one online: The photo's weird and I don't understand the lolcats caption, but I like the look inside the scoreboard there with the numbers hanging on the wall. Is that Camden or Safeco? Either way, I want to sit right there. Either way, I vote Ibanez.

attgig Jul 10 2008 08:44 AM

Which corner outfielder? and how much do we spend? holliday would obviously be a great addition, but do we give up martinez for him (can't imagine him costing any less) we don't have much of a farm, so who can we realistically get without giving up martinez? dunn? do we really want dunn?

attgig Jul 10 2008 08:45 AM

that's safeco.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 10 2008 08:50 AM

="attgig"]that's safeco. Yeah. The Orioles are wearing grey, and the Seattle outfielder has white pants. Fernando Martinez isn't the Mets only trade chip. He might be required to bring back a star, but I'd be satisfied with someone who's somewhere between Carlos Beltran and Endy Chavez.

AG/DC Jul 10 2008 08:50 AM

="seawolf17"]I wanted to post a photo of Raul Ibanez, my latest trade crush, and found this one online: The photo's weird and I don't understand the lolcats caption, but I like the look inside the scoreboard there with the numbers hanging on the wall. Is that Camden or Safeco? Either way, I want to sit right there. Either way, I vote Ibanez. Nothing sums up what's been wrong with the O's for the last year better than the girly men on the bullpen bench rolling over and covering up. Guys, one of your own just went yard, stand up and act like you care. You've had 3-4 seconds since this was struck to get up and clear out, but you just sat there bored popping sunflower seeds, hoping no flying things come your way to disturb your bliss.

attgig Jul 10 2008 08:55 AM

but of course, this year, the o's bullpen has been pretty solid. maybe they're not so girly anymore. In terms of OF'ers available that I would want on the team: Holliday Nady Ibanez Giles (give up little to nothing for his salary?) or FA: Reggie Sanders Kenny Lofton that's my list of who'd i would consider seeing in a mets uni.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 10 2008 09:05 AM

I think Holliday costs too much and is a butcher in the field and on the bases. If Colorado is selling how about Brad Hawpe instead? Nady is OK, but I'm afraid sentiment values him way over his actual retail value. I mean, even if he's OK, and there's no reason to belive he won't be OK, people will think he's capable of more and expect it from him. That's a little dangerous. Plus he will cost a lot right now. Ibanez I like -- a little too old but solid and predictable and (ooops) lefty. Giles won't come, I wouldn't think, and he's a lot less than he used to be. Sanders I sort of like. Too old, frequently hurt, but at his cost (zero) always worth a shot and a nice player if he's all together. I'm less into Lofton but don;t object if they want to invite him in for a look.

sharpie Jul 10 2008 09:19 AM

Giles most certainly won't come. I believe he has veto power over trades and only wants to play in SoCal. I'm with Seawolf and also vote Ibanez. I might be wrong but I think he's a free agent after this season so shouldn't cost all that much to pry him from Seattle and last year he had a monster second half after a so-so first half. Go get him, Omar.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 10 2008 10:45 AM

Jon Heyman is saying on SNY (right now!) that the Mets might pursue Juan Rivera of the Angels.

soupcan Jul 10 2008 10:49 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Jon Heyman is saying on SNY (right now!) that the Mets might pursue Juan Rivera of the Angels. In other non-shocking news... ...I know nothing about that guy.

metirish Jul 10 2008 10:52 AM

="AG/DC"] ="seawolf17"]I wanted to post a photo of Raul Ibanez, my latest trade crush, and found this one online: The photo's weird and I don't understand the lolcats caption, but I like the look inside the scoreboard there with the numbers hanging on the wall. Is that Camden or Safeco? Either way, I want to sit right there. Either way, I vote Ibanez. Nothing sums up what's been wrong with the O's for the last year better than the girly men on the bullpen bench rolling over and covering up. Guys, one of your own just went yard, stand up and act like you care. You've had 3-4 seconds since this was struck to get up and clear out, but you just sat there bored popping sunflower seeds, hoping no flying things come your way to disturb your bliss. Funny.

AG/DC Jul 10 2008 10:52 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 10 2008 11:09 AM

soupcan wrote: ="Benjamin Grimm"]Jon Heyman is saying on SNY (right now!) that the Mets might pursue Juan Rivera of the Angels. In other non-shocking news... ...I know nothing about that guy. Heyman? He's a tool. You're not missing much.

smg58 Jul 10 2008 11:01 AM

I'd consider Randy Winn as well. Bowker is a natural right fielder playing out of position at first, so the Giants would probably move Winn for a young first baseman. We could afford to part with either Evans or Carp, and Winn would still be under contract next year for a little more than what we're currently paying Alou. He's not great, but like Ibanez he's fairly consistent, and "serviceable" would be a significant upgrade for us.

AG/DC Jul 10 2008 11:08 AM

I actually meant to say that the photo spoke to the state of the O's over the last decade, not year.

soupcan Jul 10 2008 11:09 AM

AG/DC wrote: Heyman? He's a tool. You're not missing much. Juan Rivera.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 10 2008 11:19 AM

According to Heyman, Rivera is hitting .194 for the Angels.

Frayed Knot Jul 10 2008 11:21 AM

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riverju01.shtml He came up with the Yanx before winding up in Anaheim - just turned 30 Had a couple a pretty good mostly-full seasons including a real good one in 2006 But then broke his leg (or something serious like that) and missed virtually all of '07 and has played only sparingly so far in '08 He's been mentioned as a possible Met target since before the start of the season.

seawolf17 Jul 10 2008 11:33 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: According to Heyman, Rivera is hitting .194 for the Angels. And according to Bob Klapisch, he's hitting .800 for the Yankees.

metirish Jul 10 2008 11:34 AM

Wasn't this the guy that stole something from Jeter in the yankee clubhouse?

seawolf17 Jul 10 2008 11:34 AM

metirish wrote: Wasn't this the guy that stole something from Jeter in the yankee clubhouse? His virginity?

Frayed Knot Jul 10 2008 11:37 AM

metirish wrote: Wasn't this the guy that stole something from Jeter in the yankee clubhouse? No that was Ruben Rivera - a once highly prized prospect who is a cousin to Mariano but no relation to Juan

metsguyinmichigan Jul 10 2008 11:41 AM

Centerfield wrote: Characteristics of Moises Alou day: No one shows up to work. Everyone gets paid anyway. Someone strains an eyelid blinking. Smelly hands. metirish wrote: Wasn't this the guy that stole something from Jeter in the yankee clubhouse? His virginity? -- Not one, but TWO Bullet nominees in the same topic! Nice work, guys.

metirish Jul 10 2008 11:43 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: ="metirish"]Wasn't this the guy that stole something from Jeter in the yankee clubhouse? No that was Ruben Rivera - a once highly prized prospect who is a cousin to Mariano but no relation to Juan Yeah that was him, thanks.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 10 2008 11:51 AM

And which of those guys opened Al Capone's empty vault on national television?

Centerfield Jul 10 2008 12:17 PM

Cramps are not really injuries are they? Just stay hydrated, eat some bananas and you should be ok.

Nymr83 Jul 10 2008 01:48 PM

]I think Holliday costs too much and is a butcher in the field and on the bases 12 steals caught once this year, 11 steals caught 4 times last year, so unless he makes a bunch of baserunning blunders like timo perez i dont know where you are getting "butcher on the bases" from.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 10 2008 01:59 PM

Yeah, shitty baserunner, getting worse, not an athlete.

TheOldMole Jul 10 2008 02:02 PM

He carries a cleaver.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 10 2008 02:02 PM

That too.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 10 2008 02:15 PM

For what they'd cost in prospects, I'd much rather Ibanez, Dunn or Rivera (who might be available for cheap, seeing how poorly he's hit this year) than Holliday, who's split away from Coors absolutely terrifies me. I would think about just signing Lofton and keeping all our prospects, though.

AG/DC Jul 10 2008 02:23 PM

At his age, how many weeks will it take to get in big-league game shape? He's also got very little left as an outfielder.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 10 2008 02:39 PM

AG/DC wrote: At his age, how many weeks will it take to get in big-league game shape? He's also got very little left as an outfielder. Well, I can't speak for how long it would take him to get in shape, but here's his FRAR/FRAA for the last 2 years: 2006, LAD: 6/-12 2007, CLE: 7/1 2007, TEX: 5/-7 For comparison, Moises Alou: 2005, SF: 6/-7 2006, SF: 11/0 2007, NY: 7/-3 I figure he'd be about the same as Alou in left defensively. He's nothing great, but he doesn't make a ton of outs at the plate and he wouldn't cost anything.

Kong76 Jul 10 2008 02:41 PM

Alou = torn hammy, out for season - Omar on SNY

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 10 2008 02:44 PM

KC wrote: Alou = torn hammy, out for season - Omar on SNY Too bad. I was really rooting for him to make it back, both for the team and his own benefit. He seems like a guy who was willing to do anything he could to stay on the field, but his body kept failing him.

seawolf17 Jul 10 2008 02:45 PM

Fucking hell, Moises.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 10 2008 02:49 PM

KC wrote: Alou = torn hammy, out for season - Omar on SNY At least this gives us some clarity. Is there an AL contender who needs pitching badly enough to trade a solid outfielder for Oliver Perez? If the player we get back is good enough, I'd have to consider that deal. We can't count on continued visits from "Good Ollie" and right now his trade value is as high as it's likely to get.

86-Dreamer Jul 10 2008 02:59 PM

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: ="KC"]Alou = torn hammy, out for season - Omar on SNY Too bad. I was really rooting for him to make it back, both for the team and his own benefit. He seems like a guy who was willing to do anything he could to stay on the field, but his body kept failing him. I definitely wanted his bat back in the lineup, but I have a hard time believing he takes proper care of himself if he can't step on the field without pulling a muscle. as said previously, try some water and more bananas - and maybe a few less beers as well.

Centerfield Jul 10 2008 03:07 PM

Well that's that. Rumor has it that Alou tore his other hammy while being moved from the 15 day DL to the 60 day DL.

HahnSolo Jul 10 2008 03:10 PM

Just to toss a couple more names out there. Is it worth it to inquire about these guys, and is it worth it to give up anything worthwhile for them? Brian Giles Brad Wilkerson Craig Monroe Randy Winn (if the Giants pick up a good portion of his 09 salary)

86-Dreamer Jul 10 2008 03:16 PM

HahnSolo wrote: Just to toss a couple more names out there. Is it worth it to inquire about these guys, and is it worth it to give up anything worthwhile for them? Brian Giles Brad Wilkerson Craig Monroe Randy Winn (if the Giants pick up a good portion of his 09 salary) I like Winn out of that group. And it ain't my money, so would prefer if they ate the salary and did not give up any talent.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 10 2008 03:34 PM

Exactly. If the Mets take on salary, they'll be able to give up less talent.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 11 2008 05:35 AM

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/sports/baseball/11shea.html?ref=sports]With Alou Out, the Mets Seem Ready to Go Shopping[/url] By BEN SHPIGEL Published: July 11, 2008 If this is how it ends, Moises Alou’s time with the Mets will be remembered less for his glorious September last season than for four visits to the disabled list and unfulfilled expectations. Alou signed with the team anticipating another World Series championship, or at least trips to the playoffs, but his latest injury — a torn left hamstring — may signal the end of his career. The Mets may pursue Xavier Nady, a versatile outfielder who can also play first base. After feeling a cramp while diving for a ball Wednesday night during a rehabilitation game for Class AA Binghamton in Norwich, Conn., Alou, 42, had a magnetic resonance imaging test in New York on Thursday morning. The results revealed the severity of the injury, and General Manager Omar Minaya said the team’s medical staff recommended surgery. “He’ll have to decide that,” Minaya said after the Mets defeated the San Francisco Giants, 7-3. “The reality is that he’s going to be out for a very long time and possibly may miss the year.” Asked whether there were any circumstances under which he could expect Alou to return, Minaya shook his head. “It’s going to be tough based on what the doctor told me,” Minaya said. The Mets had hoped that Alou, already on the disabled list with a strained left calf, could return to help justify the $7.5 million option they exercised on him before this season. They have surged into contention without him and their other corner outfielder, Ryan Church, who is dealing with postconcussion symptoms. But with the July 31 trade deadline less than three weeks away, Minaya will explore deals for suitable replacements. “To overcome a loss of that magnitude, of our fifth and sixth hitters, at this level for an upper-division — what you consider yourself as an upper-division club — something else has to happen in the other parts of the game,” Manager Jerry Manuel said. The Mets have started 11 players in left field this season; together, their production ranks near the worst in baseball. Combined, they have hit .246 with four home runs, which ranked 29th before Thursday night’s games; 36 runs batted in, which ranked tied for 28th; and a .331 slugging percentage, ahead of only Toronto and the Dodgers, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.* As well as Endy Chávez and Fernando Tatis have played while Alou and Church have been hurt, it is unrealistic that they will maintain that level of production over the final 72 games. So the Mets would figure to pursue a versatile outfielder, someone they could acquire without having to dip into a farm system mostly barren of talent. The underachieving Mariners, having begun looking to the future, released first baseman Richie Sexson on Thursday and could be persuaded to deal the 36-year-old Raúl Ibáñez, who had averaged 27 home runs and 114 R.B.I. over the past two seasons. A familiar name, Xavier Nady, could play both corner spots as well as first base. His Pittsburgh teammate, Jason Bay, is equally alluring but would come at a higher price. José Guillén has a few deterrents — his combustible personality, his streaky hitting, the $12 million owed for each of the next two seasons — but he would supply right-handed power and strong defense. “Are we going to be in the marketplace looking for guys to improve? Yes,” Minaya said. “But it has to be the right guy.” _______________ My edit: * The Met team record for starting the most Left Fielders was set by the pennant winning 2000 squad -12 LF'ers started that year - just one more than the current team. Your starting LF'ers in 2000 were: Benny Agbayani (88 games) Rickey Henderson (28) Darryl Hamilton (12) Jason Tyner (10) Joe McEwing (6) Joe Nunnally (6) Lenny Harris (4) Timo Perez (3) Melvin Mora (1) Bubba Trammell (1) Matt Franco (1) Mark Johnson (1) Jorge Toca and Jay Payton also played LF in 2000, though never as starters.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 11 2008 07:04 AM

nice work. I can't imagine how shitty it would be to be a Dodgers or Jays faan and get less out of left field than we have so far.

seawolf17 Jul 11 2008 07:15 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: nice work. I can't imagine how shitty it would be to be a Dodgers or Jays faan and get less out of left field than we have so far. Not to mention you have to watch Joe Torre pick his nose every night or walk around saying "aboot" and eating moose jerky.

MFS62 Jul 11 2008 07:15 AM

Looking at that list makes me wonder what it would take to get Melvin Mora from the O's. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jul 11 2008 07:18 AM

MFS62 wrote: Looking at that list makes me wonder what it would take to get Melvin Mora from the O's. Mike Bordick?

AG/DC Jul 11 2008 07:30 AM

He was diving for a ball!? Aren't rehab games in the minors where you go partially so you don't feel as guilty about taking it a little easy out there?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 11 2008 07:36 AM

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 11 2008 07:48 AM

Do you wanna see this year's list of starting LF'ers? Cover your eyes if you do. Here it is: Angel Pagan (20) Marlon Anderson (15) Moises Alou (13) Endy Chavez (13) Fernando Tatis (11) Nick Evans (7) Trot Nixon (6) Damion Easley (2) Chris Aguila (2) Brady Clark (2) Andy Phillips (1)

AG/DC Jul 11 2008 07:49 AM

The really amazing thing is how par for the course this is. We haven't had stability of any sort at the corner outfield spots since Straw and McReynolds left. If you look at who started the most games at those two positions each year, the most enduring name is Cliff Floyd, and he was healthy one year. After that is who? Benny? Huskey? Year LF-RF 1992 Boston-Bonilla 1993 Coleman-Bonilla 1994 McReynolds-Orsulak 1995 Orsulak-Everett 1996 Gilkey-Ochoa 1997 Gilkey-Ochoa (wow! twice!) 1998 Gilkey-Huskey 1999 Henderson-Cedeño 2000 Agbayani-Bell 2001 Agbayani-Perez 2002 Cedeño-Burnitz 2003 Floyd-Cedeno 2004 Floyd-Hidalgo 2005 Floyd-Diaz (Diaz led that team in right field appearances?!) 2006 Floyd-Nady 2007 Alou-Green 2008 Chavez-Church It shouldn't be that indicting that they haven't successfully put a long-term plan into effect. In theory, you should always be able to find a corner outfielder who can hit a little, and solving other issues long term are higher priorities. The problem is that they haven't always found that guy. In fact, you can say they usually haven't.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 11 2008 07:51 AM

Cardboard Gods features Ken Henderson today iramically

AG/DC Jul 11 2008 08:09 AM

Wow.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 11 2008 08:19 AM

What about this guy?

metirish Jul 11 2008 08:22 AM

="batmagadanleadoff"]What about this guy? Absolutely don't know if it means anything but one report I read stated that Fred Wilpon is very close to Selig and in no way would he take on Bonds, that was one reason given.

soupcan Jul 11 2008 08:26 AM

="batmagadanleadoff"]What about this guy? Which one?

attgig Jul 11 2008 09:37 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/diamondbacks/2008-07-09-bonds-interest_N.htm ]"I am not talking to any club about Barry Bonds," Borris said, "because they all made it very clear to me they are not interested in him. Every club. "I can't believe he doesn't have a job. No one has offered even the minimum salary. He made the All-Star team last year, and there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have a repeat performance in 2008, except for the conspiracy against him." hehe. oh barry.

OlerudOwned Jul 11 2008 10:41 AM

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/07/3_up_harden_dun.html ]I keep hearing there is not much of a market for Adam Dunn. The Reds clearly have no plans of retaining him as a free agent after this season. They might even be concerned about offering arbitration and having Dunn's market be so insignificant this offseason as a free agent that he would accept the arbitration and because of his homer history earn a contract of $17 million or more for 2008. So maybe the Reds would be willing to take something now far below Dunn's value simply to get a return of some kind and not have to deal with the offseason issues. I am not a big fan of Dunn. He is a poor defender, strikes out a ton and has the kind of outward body language of indifference that the Mets have been trying to shed under interim manager Jerry Manuel. But if Dunn's power bat is sitting out there for just a tepid return, I suspect the Mets have to check in seriously on that. Ignoring the part where Joel Sherman has an opinion, because his opinion sucks, this type of rumbling excites me. If his trade value is that low right now, the Mets really should be jumping at the chance. It'd be like throwing Ryan Howard into the lineup, except in a world where Ryan Howard is on-basing 60 points higher than real world Ryan Howard. The only thing that would worry me is that the lineup would start looking a bit too lefty-heavy, but I think you could balance that well enough by subbing Tatis for either Dunn or Delgado against left handed starters.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 11 2008 11:02 AM

I can't, for the life of me, understand the dim view of Adam Dunn. Even with his anemic Batting Average and frequent strikeouts, he's still managing to get on base at an almost 40% clip and is having a better season than every single Met. I'd take this guy in the blink of an eye. And I'd bat him in the second hole on these Mets, if it was up to me.

OlerudOwned Jul 11 2008 11:09 AM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I can't, for the life of me, understand the dim view of Adam Dunn. Even with his anemic Batting Average and frequent strikeouts, he's still managing to get on base at an almost 40% clip and is having a better season than every single Met. I'd take this guy in the blink of an eye. And I'd bat him in the second hole on these Mets, if it was up to me. Spot on. People want a guy who can take pitches hitting behind Reyes? Dunn is 3rd in the entire sport in pitches seen per plate appearance. It'd be like having Castillo there, provided Castillo was allowed to use an aluminum bat, and that all the games are being played in Williamsport.

smg58 Jul 11 2008 11:12 AM

I'm really not sure why the Reds didn't offer Dunn (a Texan) to the Rangers instead of Hamilton in the offseason. Assuming they won't bring Dunn back, they'd have been in way better shape going in to next year. I don't think Dunn is an elite player, but he's better than the other LF options available by a wide margin. I can't imagine the market for him is as bad as Sherman is suggesting, but you kind of have to be curious.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 11 2008 12:44 PM

Dunn's a monster. Year in, year out he gives you a .380 OBP/.520 SLG. He also may be a worse option in the field than Barry Bonds. I don't know if the Mets should trade for him; it would depend on the package. If we can land Dunn while keeping Niese, Flores and Martinez, I'd do it. Otherwise, I dunno...

metsguyinmichigan Jul 11 2008 12:44 PM

smg58 wrote: I'm really not sure why the Reds didn't offer Dunn (a Texan) to the Rangers instead of Hamilton in the offseason. Assuming they won't bring Dunn back, they'd have been in way better shape going in to next year. I don't think Dunn is an elite player, but he's better than the other LF options available by a wide margin. I can't imagine the market for him is as bad as Sherman is suggesting, but you kind of have to be curious. The Sports Illustrated story said that the Rangers came hard after Hamilton, as opposed to the Reds offering him around. As for Alou, I read today that he got hurt diving for a ball? I appreciate the hustle, but why is this guy diving for a ball in a Double-A rehab game? Damn, Moises. Let the thing drop in and throw it to the 21-year-old cutoff man and stay bleeping healthy.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 11 2008 01:51 PM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: As for Alou, I read today that he got hurt diving for a ball? I appreciate the hustle, but why is this guy diving for a ball in a Double-A rehab game? Damn, Moises. Let the thing drop in and throw it to the 21-year-old cutoff man and stay bleeping healthy. I'd bet that it wouldn'ta made a difference, other than to delay Alou's season ending injury to about when he woulda come back to play his next Met game. Moises was probably so fragile, his hamstring was hanging by a thread. I'd say that this latest injury was inevitable. OE- This just in - Moises Alou injures other hamstring while attempting to mount the MRI machine that was supposed to photograph his first hamstring injury. Hamstrung doctors can't determine the extent and severity of Alou's hamstring injuries.