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Jerry ... so far

Frayed Knot Jul 14 2008 06:54 AM

So let's use the the break here to put Jerry up on the lift and look around under the hood for a while and give him his 26 game check-up. Obviously the pre-ASG streak makes the W/L record a whole lot better compared to before he took over and the scribes in this town seem unanimous in their praise of Jerry's "open-ness" not only to them but to the players as well. Or at least that's their story and they're going to stick to it at least as long as things are going well. But how about his mgmt during the game itself? Among topics to consider: - does his in-game strategy differ from Willie and, if so, how? - Are starters being used differently? Longer leash / quicker hook? - Are there really more strictly defined roles for the relievers or is that just talk so far? - How about the lineups - any trends or tendencies changed since the change? - Big ball vs small ball - Are the players hustling more and/or playing smarter?

soupcan Jul 14 2008 07:35 AM Re: Jerry ... so far

- does his in-game strategy differ from Willie and, if so, how? I'm no expert on the X's and O's of baseball, my knowledge is limited to that of a long time fan whose watched a lot of baseball. I'll say though that I have noticed the Mets seemingly are playing more for the multiple run inning as opposed to scratching for just one run. - Are starters being used differently? Longer leash / quicker hook? seems to me that the starters are being given a longer leash. That could be a coinceidence dovetailing with the fact that are pitching better, but allowing Pelfrey to finish that 8th inning last night, didn't seem like something Willie was really thrilled to do. Not that Willie didn't do it, it just seems that Jerry gives the starters more 'ownership' of the game if that makes sense. - Are there really more strictly defined roles for the relievers or is that just talk so far? Other than Wagner, I don't see the roles as being definied at all. I've seen Heilman, Smith Sanchez and Feliciano in the 8th. I think Heilman is the defacto 8th inning guy but Jerry has shown that he likes the hot hand. - How about the lineups - any trends or tendencies changed since the change? Again - hot hands play. - Big ball vs small ball Willie talked about 'stepping on the neck', but Jerry seems to really pursue that. A theme of the winning streak is piling on the late runs. Willie tended to sit back and try to protect the lead. Jerry appears to be more aggresive. Lots of extra bases taken. I keep thinking back to the Angel series and how the Halos played with reckless abandon. I think I'm seeing more of that in these Mets. - Are the players hustling more and/or playing smarter? I think they are 'hustling' whatever that means, but playing smarter? I've seen Reyes not play so smart, I've seen Beltran make at least 2 questionable throws. Is that playing dumb or playing aggresive?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 14 2008 08:00 AM

I'm liking Manuel a lot so far. For starters, two starters have really come around since Manuel took over. We've all been watching and reading about Pelfrey's development, especially since yesterday's team shutout over the Rockies. Perez has been even better than Pelfrey over the last two weeks, and is the Mets best pitcher over that time frame. I don't know how much credit Manuel and Warthen deserve for this, if any. Perhaps this is flukey or something that was destined to happen whether or not Randolph was fired. Still, the emergence of Pelfrey and Perez did happen on Manuel and Warthen's watch. As far as what I can directly attribute to Manuel, I can't recall a first inning sacrifice bunt since Randolph's firing. While I don't mind a first inning sac bunt once in a while, especially to throw the opposition off guard, I detested Randolph's virtually automatic non-discretionary sac bunting of the #2 hitter as soon as Reyes lead off a game by getting on base. I'm also happy to see Castro getting more playing time. This came a year too late for the Mets, however. Castro's bat is too potent to be kept on the bench as much as it was under Willie. I also like Manuel's comment about disregarding player salaries when determining who will play. Of course, salary is a sunk cost that has no bearing on future performance. I'd like to see a stronger hitter in the #2 hole, but I'm willing to give Manuel some slack here, recognizing the Mets current injury situation and the players Manuel has to work with. Given the composition of these Mets, Ryan Church would make a terrific #2 hitter, and, if I remember correctly, did bat second in one of the two games he started for Manuel before revisiting the DL. So far, Manuel's been terrific. Met managers, going back to Davey Johnson (an arbitrary cutoff point) have been boom or bust. I loved Johnson and Valentine and considered every other one to be severely flawed in one way or another, if not borderline incompetent. It's unusual for the Mets to land good managerial talent. I wouldn't mind if Manuel stays. The Mets could do a lot worse. I was thinking of starting this same topic here, coincidentally.

Fman99 Jul 14 2008 08:31 AM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I'm liking Manuel a lot so far. For starters, two starters have really come around since Manuel took over. We've all been watching and reading about Pelfrey's development, especially since yesterday's team shutout over the Rockies. Perez has been even better than Pelfrey over the last two weeks, and is the Mets best pitcher over that time frame. I don't know how much credit Manuel and Warthen deserve for this, if any. Perhaps this is flukey or something that was destined to happen whether or not Randolph was fired. Still, the emergence of Pelfrey and Perez did happen on Manuel and Warthen's watch. As far as what I can directly attribute to Manuel, I can't recall a first inning sacrifice bunt since Randolph's firing. While I don't mind a first inning sac bunt once in a while, especially to throw the opposition off guard, I detested Randolph's virtually automatic non-discretionary sac bunting of the #2 hitter as soon as Reyes lead off a game by getting on base. I'm also happy to see Castro getting more playing time. This came a year too late for the Mets, however. Castro's bat is too potent to be kept on the bench as much as it was under Willie. I also like Manuel's comment about disregarding player salaries when determining who will play. Of course, salary is a sunk cost that has no bearing on future performance. I'd like to see a stronger hitter in the #2 hole, but I'm willing to give Manuel some slack here, recognizing the Mets current injury situation and the players Manuel has to work with. Given the composition of these Mets, Ryan Church would make a terrific #2 hitter, and, if I remember correctly, did bat second in one of the two games he started for Manuel before revisiting the DL. So far, Manuel's been terrific. Met managers, going back to Davey Johnson (an arbitrary cutoff point) have been boom or bust. I loved Johnson and Valentine and considered every other one to be severely flawed in one way or another, if not borderline incompetent. It's unusual for the Mets to land good managerial talent. I wouldn't mind if Manuel stays. The Mets could do a lot worse. I was thinking of starting this same topic here, coincidentally. I agree with all of this. Plus there is the benefit of the "cleansed palate," getting rid of Randolph who stunk of last October no matter what he or anyone else said otherwise.

Valadius Jul 14 2008 08:32 AM

Well he is FAR more apt to pinch-hit for his catchers. And he plays the hot hands, rather than the guys making a lot of money.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 14 2008 08:32 AM

Seems to me that Manuel, if not necessarily demonstrating in actual game situations that he has a better idea of what makes the Mets go than Willie ever did, understands what needs to be done to make the Mets go better than Willie ever did, and has conveyed that, and have thus far gotten the team/fans/media to have bought into it. The personnel are virtually identical. I don't think, despite his comments, that the bullpen has become more rigidly role-structured. The pitchers seem to have more or less pitched themselves deeper into games. The one strategic change has been a willingness to play the irregulars including Castro more often. I felt like they still bunt too much. In summary, Manuel by demonstrating he understands the Mets has gotten everyone to perk up a little.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 14 2008 08:40 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The personnel are virtually identical. I don't think, despite his comments, that the bullpen has become more rigidly role-structured. The pitchers seem to have more or less pitched themselves deeper into games. Yeah. I didn't mention the relievers in my post because I also don't see this "more defined role" for the bullpen that Manuel speaks about. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, but that it's not obvious to me, from my fan with no team access perspective. Of course there is a synergy between the starters and bullpen; better starting pitching makes it easier to manage the bullpen. As you note, this is surely happening to the Mets right now.

AG/DC Jul 14 2008 08:40 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 14 2008 08:51 AM

I don't care generally about palate cleansing. I hope the reason to go on without Randolph was about the present and future, not the past. Manuel seems to display a real confidence in his abilities and hs teams. Willie always tried to project confidence, but it sure seemed to wane into a façade since 2006, based on his defensiveness with the media, and I think that trickled down to the team.

Centerfield Jul 14 2008 08:43 AM

I like Jerry because he seems like a smart guy. That makes me like him a lot more than the overly-defensive-not-so-smart guy he replaced.

OlerudOwned Jul 14 2008 09:31 AM

Centerfield wrote: I like Jerry because he seems like a smart guy. That makes me like him a lot more than the overly-defensive-not-so-smart guy he replaced. I think it's the glasses. Manuel's got them. Warthen's got them. Maddon for the Rays rocks the same kind and look at the season they've been having.

attgig Jul 14 2008 10:04 AM

I don't think much has changed actually baseball wise. You hear the interviews and all you hear is that the clubhouse feels a lot looser, and guys are growing facial hair. In terms of actual baseball, the starters and pen are actually clicking, all at the same time. We've had some puny offensive games, but the pitching has carried us through. Pelfrey's been doing great all season. He hit a rough patch where he was winless in like 10 starts or so, but a few of them were decent - pretty good pitching performances where we weren't getting the offense. So, I can't say that he's better because peterson's gone. And with Oliver Perez, he's the streakiest guy out there, so just cuz he's had a couple of wins since the departure of willy/peterson, doesn't mean he's back yet.... One guy who I'm worried about is John Maine. He seems to have turned for the worse since Rick's disappearance. Coupled that with incredibly odd non-pitching arm injury... don't know what to make of him. The offense coming back though... that may be a diff story. I like he's using the hot bats, and I wonder if he had any part in convincing castillo to go to the dl because he was set on using easley. If so, then serious kudos. I'm loving being straight with the catchers, and making it a clear platoon. It's interesting how he's platooning based on offense and not caring at all about pitcher-catcher matchup, but liking how he's aware of that, and will adjust accordingly. I wonder if Nick Evans is getting auditioned for a trade, and that's why he's out there as often as he is. And I wonder how long he's going to stick with Tatis. He's been pretty hot, but seems to be cooling as of late. I think we'll get a better gauge of Jerry lineup-wise in a few weeks with the outfield & 2b shuffles. Especially if Pagan gets back. As for actual on the field stuff. They're still sloppy defensively. They seem to be able to actually get a few hits with RISP, which is kind of exciting. But yeah, it helps when delgado seems like he's back, and easley, tatis, and Castro (and even Schneider with his PH) seem to be picking up some slack where there were black holes before. Credit the manager? possibly.

AG/DC Jul 14 2008 10:12 AM

They've has some "puny offensive games," but not of the innefficiently puny variety, where eight hits and four walks equals one run. I don't think bumping a guy up two levels where he misses his AA All-Star game and hasn't yet hit a homer in the bigs is an effective way to showcase somebody for a trade. Besides, we're trying to win some games here.

Frayed Knot Jul 14 2008 11:30 AM

Seems to me that Jerry's still bunting as much as Willie ever did. Maybe there's not as much early inning stuff but that might be due more to Castillo not being around (and he did some of that on his own) than any real change in philosophy. Making Castro catcher #1A to the starters' #1 is something I've been wanting to see for years now although, in fairness, Ramon himself was rarely healthy enough to make that happen even when the chance did pop up. Credit to Jerry though for not being as tied to Schneider's "superior defense" to try alternatives and you get the idea that he won't lock himself into other roles that way even though there have been no other real lineup changes. Pitcher use seems pretty much the same to me. Again, it seems like he's willing to go longer with the starters but I doubt any evidence exists that he has. And the pen roles (such as they are) seem virtually identical. Funny how much better the mgr looks when the identical crew in identical spots is simply better or when their one recent blowup (last night in Philly) came the same night when the bats gave them a 9-run cushion. I do seem to detect an extra layer of hustle. Nothing major and not all the time (see my in-game note about Reyes Sun. night) but Delgado looks more alive even when not knocking them over the fence and there hav been a few other instances here and there as well - so maybe he is "reaching" these guys a little better.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 14 2008 11:38 AM

What do you think about his policy of pulling guys out as soon as there is a hint of injury? And supposedly he won't start them the next day if they ask to be taken out the day before. Don't know if this makes players want to hide injuries. Or does it just cut down on drama queen stuff?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 14 2008 11:39 AM

In terms of hustle, I should say I had a good look at Tatis going first-to-third last night, and say that if its not out there yet how hard he runs, it oughta be. Deserves a standing O.

AG/DC Jul 14 2008 11:46 AM

Howie was raving about a doubleplay Reyes hit into where he busted it out of the box and, even though he hit in on the screws right at the first baseman, and the Mets were winning large in the back half of the game, he nearly beat it out.

HahnSolo Jul 14 2008 01:48 PM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Seems to me that Manuel, if not necessarily demonstrating in actual game situations that he has a better idea of what makes the Mets go than Willie ever did, understands what needs to be done to make the Mets go better than Willie ever did, and has conveyed that, and have thus far gotten the team/fans/media to have bought into it. Totally agree.

Nymr83 Jul 14 2008 04:31 PM

]- does his in-game strategy differ from Willie and, if so, how? - Are starters being used differently? Longer leash / quicker hook? - Are there really more strictly defined roles for the relievers or is that just talk so far? - How about the lineups - any trends or tendencies changed since the change? - Big ball vs small ball - Are the players hustling more and/or playing smarter? its early to say too much, butheres what i've noticed so far. this is all observation not based on my checking numbers: -he bunts less than willie -he leaves pitchers in the game longer and doesnt care about high pitch counts for pelfrey and santana (maybe for others as well i'm not sure) -he or wharten is really pushing Pelfrey, and i like it. -he yells at umps more its hard to come to too many more conclusions this early on

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 13 2008 09:56 AM

David Lennon of Newsday in a live chat just said he feels Jerry will be retained next year. What do you think? I was strongly in his corner until just recently, when I began again to lose complete CAHNfidence in the club all over again. Yesterday I was as down as I'd been since July 4, which was the previous low-point of the Jerry Era for me. Now I think it's a matter of win a playoff series or hit the road. You?

Centerfield Aug 13 2008 10:01 AM

Unchanged. If you can convince Bobby to leave Japan, go for it. If not, bring Jerry back. If Carter gets the job I'm moving to Canada.

metirish Aug 13 2008 02:28 PM

I think all bets are off if Minaya goes , the new GM (Tony B?) will want his own guy. I wonder when Jerry taking his players to task in the media will start to fall on deaf ears. ] Now I think it's a matter of win a playoff series or hit the road. You? I'm with that.