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All-Star Thoughts

soupcan Jul 16 2008 07:40 AM

Wagner - Who among us did not know he would blow that save? He's improving though - at least he's just blowing the saves and not the games. Uggla - WTF? New name - Dan 'Stone Hands' Uggla. Hurdle - Kazmir was on a strict low pitch count, why didn't Hurdle stick with Webb for one more inning? They didn't say anything about Webb being limited like Kazmir was. What's one inning going to do? Webb looked great. Why go to the last man in your pen (Lidge) when you know that the other team is going to have to throw some position player out there in the next inning? Yes, you don't expect Lidge to blow that but still - had he held them, then the NL is in the same position as the AL in terms of no pitchers. Had webb pitched another inning, maybe the NL gets to face Evan Longoria or whoever, score a few runs and then have Lidge come in.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 16 2008 07:43 AM

Which uniform variation did Wagner and Wright wear? I'm hoping it was grey jersey and blue cap.

AG/DC Jul 16 2008 07:44 AM

Well, since they sooked, I'm hoping other.

Frayed Knot Jul 16 2008 07:45 AM

Both Webb & Kazmir threw 100+ pitches on Sunday and were placed behind the 'Break Glass Only in Case of Emergency' partition at the start of the game. I have no idea what would have happened if that game stayed tied another inning or two. At some point you've got to call it and take the pr hit.

soupcan Jul 16 2008 07:45 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Which uniform variation did Wagner and Wright wear? I'm hoping it was grey jersey and blue cap. Grey jersey, black n' blue cap.

metirish Jul 16 2008 07:47 AM

soupcan Jul 16 2008 07:49 AM

="Frayed Knot"]Both Webb & Kazmir threw 100+ pitches on Sunday and were placed behind the 'Break Glass Only in Case of Emergency' partition at the start of the game. I got that but they were only talking about Kazmir being on the pitch count. They talked about Webb being used only in case of emergency but did not indicate that he could only throw a certain number of pitches like they were saying about Kazmir. Besides Webb isn't as fragile as Kazmir and really, what would one more inning have done? ="Frayed Knot"]I have no idea what would have happened if that game stayed tied another inning or two. At some point you've got to call it and take the pr hit. Times this morning says that Wright and Longoria were ready to toe the slab.

TransMonk Jul 16 2008 07:49 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: I have no idea what would have happened if that game stayed tied another inning or two. At some point you've got to call it and take the pr hit. [url=http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2008/07/mets_wright_was_willing_and_re.html]Wright In To Pitch?[/url] NEW YORK - Would you ever think to see David Wright racing out of the same bullpen where Mariano Rivera carved a Hall of Fame career? Why not. There were already enough crazy things that happened last night at Yankee Stadium in the American League's 4-3 win in 15 innings. If losing Phillies reliever Brad Lidge had made it through that last inning, the Mets third baseman was in line to go out and pitch the next inning. "If he would have put me in, I would have gone out there," Wright said with a smirk as he dressed and prepared to leave. For the American League hitters, here's a quicky scouting report on Wright. He doesn't throw exceptionally hard (around 85, if fully warmed up), and was cramming to learn a two-seam fastball from Giants closer Brian Wilson as the game crept on into extra-innings. "I was excited for it, we were all pulling for him," Wilson said. "We were all going to get together and give him some tips." Said Wright: "I would have had a nice arsenal before I went out there." When asked to dissect his pitching career, Wright racked his brain for a second. His last outing, he believed, may have been in Little League in the Virginia Tidewater area. National League manager Clint Hurdle joked that he approached Wright with the idea, telling him that since he wanted to be on the team so badly, he needed to contribute. Wright was notably miffed when he was not included on the NL side, but was a late addition just a few days before the game. And although he would have been eager to pitch, Wright acknowledged that would have put an end to the game rather quickly. "I was just hoping to get an out so I'd have an ERA in the All-Star Game," Wright said. In addition to his budding career as a late-inning specialist, Wright was 1-for-3 with two strikeouts at the plate. He also drew a walk off Rays ace Scott Kazmir, and joked with media members that he had "scared" the one-time Mets prospect.

AG/DC Jul 16 2008 07:53 AM

soupcan wrote: ="Benjamin Grimm"]Which uniform variation did Wagner and Wright wear? I'm hoping it was grey jersey and blue cap. Grey jersey, black n' blue cap. And the sleestack helmet. Wright also seemed to wearing about 15 extra All Star pounds.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 16 2008 07:54 AM

AG/DC wrote: Wright also seemed to wearing about 15 extra All Star pounds. Maybe he was puffed up with pride.

HahnSolo Jul 16 2008 09:50 AM

I hate to sound like a hopeless Met homer and Wagner apologist, but I thought he had Longoria struck out looking on the pitch before his double.

smg58 Jul 16 2008 09:58 AM

If David Wright ever got hurt trying to pitch in an All-Star game, I would be just a little bit annoyed.

Rockin' Doc Jul 16 2008 11:25 AM

soupcan - "Times this morning says that Wright and Longoria were ready to toe the slab." Now that would have been high entertainment, as long as no one got hurt. Managers need to start trying to win the game and stop trying to get everyone some innings in order to avoid such messes. I thought it was funny that almost all of the biggest stars for each league were long gone when the game was actually hanging in the balance. Many of the less known All Stars put on a show with some very good baseball being played.

OlerudOwned Jul 16 2008 11:33 AM

Maybe Wright learned the knuckleball from Todd Zeile during that unforgettable summer of 2004.

Frayed Knot Jul 16 2008 12:42 PM

Each manager had several pitchers still available as the game went into the 10th inning. I'm not sure how else we'd want them to play it unless it's to have a full half-dozen each still un-used.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 16 2008 12:51 PM

My only issue was Hurdle bringing in Wagner unnecessarily. Everyone knows he sucks after all.

cooby Jul 16 2008 07:19 PM Re: All-Star Thoughts

="soupcan"]Wagner - Who among us did not know he would blow that save? He's improving though - at least he's just blowing the saves and not the games. . I did not watch a minute of it. Please say your kidding. If he blew a save in front of everybody watching, we'll never get rid of him.

Met Hunter Jul 16 2008 09:40 PM

Technically Billy didn't blow the save. He gave it up in the 8th, just as Papelbon did.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 17 2008 07:10 AM

Well, that is a blown save, technically, because when he came into the game it was a save opportunity.

MFS62 Jul 17 2008 07:25 AM

A pre-game thought: At $2 billion per plane to make it invisible, how come we could see the Stealth? Later

metsguyinmichigan Jul 17 2008 01:10 PM

Do you realize that because of Billy's All-Star choke job, we're going to have to win the World Series in five games to be able to celebrate at Shea? Doable, just harder.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 17 2008 01:44 PM

That's right! I knew there was a reason I particularly wanted the NL to win this year. I'd really like the last game at Shea Stadium to be a World Series clinching victory.

Met Hunter Jul 17 2008 05:25 PM

="Benjamin Grimm"]Well, that is a blown save, technically, because when he came into the game it was a save opportunity. It only counts as a save opportunity if they intended to pitch Billy for both innings, which I doubt. He was in a hold situation.

themetfairy Jul 17 2008 05:28 PM

I don't think that managerial intent is an element of the save rule. So long as he was in there in a potential save situation and he didn't hold the lead, that counts as a blown save. ON EDIT - Wikipedia explains the Save and Blown Save - ]In baseball statistics, the term save (abbreviated SV or S) is used to indicate the successful maintenance of a lead by a relief pitcher, usually the closer, until the end of the game. A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in Rule 10.19 of the Rules of Baseball. That rule states the official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions[1]: 1. He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team 2. He is not the winning pitcher 3. He is credited with at least ⅓ of an inning pitched 4. He satisfies one of the following conditions: 1. He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning 2. He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, at bat or on deck 3. He pitches for at least three innings If the pitcher surrenders the lead at any point, he cannot get a save, but he may be credited as the winning pitcher if his team comes back to win (a so-called vulture win). No more than one save may be credited in each game. If a relief pitcher satisfies all of the criteria for a save, except he does not finish the game, he will often be credited with a hold. Save rules have changed over the years; the above rules are the current as defined in Section 10.19 of Major League Baseball Official Rules. The statistic was formally introduced in 1970, although research has identified saves earned prior to that point. A blown save (abbreviated BS or B) is charged to a pitcher who enters a game in a situation which permits him to earn a save (a 'save situation'), but who instead allows the tying run to score. Note that if the tying run was scored by a runner who was already on base when the new pitcher entered the game, that new pitcher will be charged with a blown save even though the run (and earned run) will not be charged to the new pitcher, but rather to the pitcher who allowed that runner to reach base.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 17 2008 06:02 PM

Met Hunter wrote: It only counts as a save opportunity if they intended to pitch Billy for both innings, which I doubt. He was in a hold situation. It's only a "hold situation" if he does come out of the game, regardless, as Scarlett says, of the manager's intent. Here's Wagner's line from the box score: B. Wagner (BS, 1) 0.1 2 1 1 0 0 0 27.00 Note the "BS"

Met Hunter Jul 17 2008 09:20 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess holds and saves can only be designated at the end result of the pitcher's appearance.

themetfairy Jul 18 2008 05:23 AM

Met Hunter wrote: Thanks for clearing that up. I guess holds and saves can only be designated at the end result of the pitcher's appearance. Exactly.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 18 2008 06:06 AM

="Benjamin Grimm"]Note the "BS" You're right, Ben- holds and saves are BS.

themetfairy Jul 18 2008 06:14 AM

It's not that they're total BS as much as their importance is overemphasized. They tell you something. But managerial strategy should always be about winning games, NOT about bucking up relievers' stats.