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Mets in pillbox caps

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 08:01 AM

Uniwatch today has a neat photo of the 1976 Japanese tour, and shows a bunch of players in the pillbox caps. Who is that wearing No. 18 for the Mets? Youngblood didn't start wearing it until later the next season.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 08:05 AM

That #18 sure looks like Youngblood.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 08:07 AM

Are you sure that's 1976? There's what looks like Kingman in a Cubs cap at the very top left of the picture. And the Pirates didn't have those mix-n-match unis until 1977.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 08:08 AM

Plus, the Mets are wearing 1978 (at the earliest) unis.

HahnSolo Jul 23 2008 08:08 AM

Is that Ted Williams kneeling behind Garvey in the Padre uniform? Aurelio Lopez looks like Pedro in a fat suit and fro.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 08:09 AM

HahnSolo wrote: Is that Ted Williams kneeling behind Garvey in the Padre uniform? It's ex-Met Roger Craig.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 08:14 AM

I don't wanna pile on here, but Ozzie Smith wasn't around in 1976. He's also wearing a one-year style Padre uni (1979 - Weren't all Padre unis in the 1970's one year styles [/joke]?) I'd say that's a 1979 picture based on Ozzie's uniform.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 08:16 AM

Yeah, that's not 1976. Check out Ozzie's afro!

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 08:17 AM

Uniwatch says it's 1976, but you are all correct so it can't be.

soupcan Jul 23 2008 08:18 AM

If its '79 why are they wearing the pillboxes? Those are definitely 1976.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 23 2008 08:22 AM

Those are 1976 caps, but that picture couldn't have been taken in that year. That's definitely Joel Youngblood in Mets uniform number 18, and he didn't become a Met until the infamous day of June 15, 1977.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 08:23 AM

This in the Uniwatch comments.. On the All-Star shot from Japan: that picture has to be from 1979…there was not a tour in 1976 or 1977 and the Reds went in 1978. Also, it features Mets’ uniforms not used until 1978 — and it features John Stearns and Joel Youngblood — neither of whom would have been selected to play on anything like an All-Star team in 1976. And Stearns would have been wearing 16 if it were 1976, which he wore his rookie season with the Mets, which was 1976 (although he was up late in ‘75).

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 08:25 AM

Thoughts on the Photo: John Stoins packing the winter weight. This is embarrassing to ask but what kind of shoes do baseball players wear on Astroturf? It looks like they're wearing your standard spikes for grass. Does Ozzie have a fat lip? The Pirates still can't get it together. I'm counting five Pirates with, sorta, five different combinations. Two different hats on the Phils also I'm guessing it was cold, but warmup jackets under the jersey is a butt look. There is almost nothing redeeming about the Atlanta road kit at that time, but it would take a lot anyway to redeem the script "A," which looks lower-cased out of context, on the two-tone hat. Youngblood looks evil in profile The Expos cap looks like something you'd paint in. John Stearns, still fat.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 23 2008 08:33 AM

I love that scoreboard.

soupcan Jul 23 2008 08:38 AM

I still want to know why they are wearing 1976 caps in 1979. Pirates, fine but the rest are odd. Astro cap is normal, Cardinals caps are normal, Dodgers are normal unless the cap in the back row to the left of Stearns is a Dodger cap. The Phils are normal except for Tug. Braves and Cubs are normal. It's like some guys forgot to pack their hats and the only Japanese sporting goods store around only had the bicentennial ones.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 08:41 AM

Eh, I don't mind the "atlanta" look. Here's something weird: Only one American Leaguer in the whole shot. I assume that's Senor Smoke.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 08:41 AM

Probably thought the Japanese would like them best at their flashiest. Remember that this was still a Sunday alternate cap for a few teams, and of course the alpha-cap for the Bucs.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 08:43 AM

A group of MLB all-stars toured Japan after the 1979 season. Players were paid $10K each. Rod Carew quit the tour after four days because of, allegedly, a broken promise that Carew could make an extra $40-50K from Japanese endorsements.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 08:46 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Here's something weird: Only one American Leaguer in the whole shot. I assume that's Senor Smoke. There is surely an American League shot as well. This tour pitted the NL All Stars against the AL All Stars. (Check out the scoreboard -- top right).

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 08:50 AM

I was figuring that was Nippon vs. America, or something. batmag is all over this photo.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 08:52 AM

Get outta the shot, Smoky!

HahnSolo Jul 23 2008 09:01 AM

Was that Aurelio Lopez's nickname? I thought that belonged to Juan Berenguer.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 09:14 AM

So let's do this thing... First row, kneeling: Dodgers trainer Guy McWhitehair, Steve Garvey, Some Guy Trying to Pass Himself off as Mike Schmidt, Exec McRaincoat, Chub Feeney Second row, kneeling: Roger Craig Third row, standing: Tommy LaSorda, Aurelio Lopez, Ted Simmons?, Fat John Stearns, Ozzie Smith, Gene Garber, Tug McGraw, Chuck Tanner?, Garry Matthews?, Joel Youngblood Back Row, Standing: Dave Kingman, Dave Parker, Andre Dawson's Ear?, Somebody Wearing a Hat in the Color that the Padres Would Later Wear, Future Mets Coach Ken Oberkfell?, Willie Stargell, Bert Blyleven?, John Candeleria, Ron Reed?, Dickie Noles?, Bud Selig? Ken Griffey, Bob Horner?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 09:18 AM

Griffey? No, that's Foster. Good call on Ron Reed. Pro hoops player.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 09:24 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Griffey? No, that's Foster. Yeah, my confidence wasn't there with Giffey. His sideburns were neater, and I had forgotten how lean George looked in the seventies. And he was pretty lean as a Met. I also considered that he was maybe a beardless Gary Maddox, but that would've made him the only Phil in white.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 09:29 AM

I'm gonna call your Bob Horner Phil Neikro. I think the dude you list as Oberkfell is actually an Astro.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 09:32 AM

That's OK. I think my Ron Reed is actually a Cardinal.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 09:36 AM

Uniwatch commenter has a theory... One more thing on the 1979 Japan photo — here’s my theory about why they wore these special hats. 1979 was the 30th anniversary of the two-laegue (Central and Pacific) system in Japan, and in the Japanese all-star game, they wore pillbox hats with stripes!

metirish Jul 23 2008 09:36 AM

Any link to the picture , only seeing a red x here.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 09:40 AM

metirish wrote: Any link to the picture , only seeing a red x here. http://blog.24to.moo.jp/images/20070728hakubutsukan10.jpg A person also thinks CHuck Tanner is giving the backrub to Phillies owner Bill Giles.

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 09:46 AM

Definitely Blyleven, Foster, and Niekro.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 09:56 AM

So, who's the swarthier looking version of Mike Schmidt in the front?

HahnSolo Jul 23 2008 10:02 AM

I don't think that's Stargell next to Blyleven. Based on his tallness I go with Jim Bibby.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 10:04 AM

AG/DC wrote: That's OK. I think my Ron Reed is actually a Cardinal. Yeah, I'm gonna agree with you. But who? Bob Forsch?

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 10:08 AM

Bob Forsch looks right. It's not Dickie Noles, nor is it Oberkfell. Both came up for the first time in 1979.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 10:11 AM

The bearded Phillie must be Luzinkski.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 10:12 AM

HahnSolo wrote: I don't think that's Stargell next to Blyleven. Based on his tallness I go with Jim Bibby. I'm sticking to my guns on that one, the captain's C on his warmup jacket telling me it's Pops.

holychicken Jul 23 2008 10:12 AM

I need one of those Mets caps.

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 10:14 AM

Is the front-row Phillie Larry Bowa? I can't for the life of me figure it out from their 1979 roster. And that's definitely not Stargell, who was "only" 6'2". Bibby's a good guess. (6'5" to Candelaria's 6'7")

HahnSolo Jul 23 2008 10:17 AM

Could the mystery Astro in teh back be future Met Joe Sambito? I seem to remember him having a white-guy 'fro and he did represent teh Astros in the 79 ASG.

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 10:18 AM

Bibby's right.

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 10:21 AM

Could the mystery man next to Bibby be Reds pitcher Mike LaCoss? He was an All-Star in 1979.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 10:21 AM

holychicken wrote: I need one of those Mets caps. And I know who has one. Calling G-FAFIF! Where did you get yours?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 10:26 AM

Try these guys. http://www.ballcap.com/

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 10:35 AM

="batmagadanleadoff"]Try these guys. http://www.ballcap.com/ $48 ????? Yikes.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 10:44 AM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: $48 ????? Yikes. Nothing is immune from the current inflation. Not even baseball caps. Those caps were $38 a few months ago. It's a high-quality cap, though.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 10:52 AM

Greg should've had one for free.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 10:59 AM

I'll yield reluctantly on Jim Bibby. He was 6'5" and Stargell was 6'2". The former seems right compared to Candy (6'7") and Kong (6'6").

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 11:04 AM

The mystery Phillie in the front row is driving me nuts. I know I know that guy.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 11:06 AM

Yup. A lot of Marlboro Men going around back then.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 11:07 AM

Are y'all saying that's not Schmidt? Then it must be Warren Brusstar.

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 11:11 AM

Nope. Not Schmidt, not Brusstar. Gotta be Bowa, but I just don't see it.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 11:15 AM

seawolf17 wrote: The mystery Phillie in the front row is driving me nuts. I know I know that guy. Not Larry Bowa?

seawolf17 Jul 23 2008 11:16 AM

I know it's Bowa, but I can't find another photo to confirm it.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 11:37 AM

Yeah, I guess the nose looks right, but the wave is tough. Kellogs has Larry in curls in 1979, but no 'stache: Canada Dry agrees on no facial hair, but the stocky upper body he appears to be sporting is in evidence.

HahnSolo Jul 23 2008 11:40 AM

The NL team needs a second baseman. I nominate Craig Reynolds as the "guy in back who may have on an Astros cap."

HahnSolo Jul 23 2008 11:46 AM

Come to think of it, we need a 3rd baseman too: OF - Kingman, Parker, Youngblood, Luzinski, Matthews, Foster 3B - SS - Ozzie, Bowa(?) 2B - 1B - Garvey C - Simmons, Stearns SP - bibby, Blyleven, Candelaria, Forsch, Niekro RP - Garber, McGraw Unidentified - Expo cap, blue cap, Astro (?) cap

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 11:51 AM

'Blood played some 3rd

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 11:51 AM

Youngblood might be beomg used as an infielder.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 23 2008 11:52 AM

AG/DC wrote: Yeah, I guess the nose looks right, but the wave is tough. Kellogs has Larry in curls in 1979, but no 'stache: Canada Dry agrees on no facial hair, but the stocky upper body he appears to be sporting is in evidence. I loved those Kellogg's cards!

Frayed Knot Jul 23 2008 11:54 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Are y'all saying that's not Schmidt? Then it must be Warren Brusstar. Sure looks like Schmidt to me

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 12:00 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Are y'all saying that's not Schmidt? Then it must be Warren Brusstar. Sure looks like Schmidt to me Hair's darkier and curlier, skin's smoother and less pink, he's bulit lower to the ground, and looks older.

themetfairy Jul 23 2008 12:07 PM

I'm with FK - it looks like Schmidt to me.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 12:10 PM

It must be Schmidt because he did go to Japan in 1979 with the All Stars. [url=http://www.shopping.com/xPO-Mitchell_and_Ness_Philadelphia_Phillies_Authentic_1979_Mike_Schmidt_Alternate_Jersey_W_Tour_Of_Japan_Patch_By_Mitchell_Ness]Link[/url] to Mitchell & Ness Mike Schmidt '79 Japan Tour Jersey. But where's our Keith - the 1979 co-MVP?

holychicken Jul 23 2008 12:15 PM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ="metsguyinmichigan"]$48 ????? Yikes. Nothing is immune from the current inflation. Not even baseball caps. Those caps were $38 a few months ago. It's a high-quality cap, though. Why couldn't this picture been posted a few months ago! heheh thanks for the link. I might still get one.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 12:15 PM

Did Bowa go?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 12:23 PM

I have an old baseball mag that reports the following late additions to the NL roster for Japan '79: Elias Sosa, reliever (ATL) Joel YOunglbood (NYM) Joe Ferguson, C (LA) Craig Reynolds, SS (HOU) Gary Matthews OF (ATL) A few stars were disgruntled because their team owners would not permit them to participate. I don't know who, but judging from that picture, Winfield and Hernandez come to mind immediately.

HahnSolo Jul 23 2008 12:28 PM

Interesting that other Padres and Cardinals were there, but that Winfield and Keith were held back by their owners.

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 12:31 PM

Well, that's a guess. Winnie may have opted out on his own. Keith might have opted instead for a tour of Colombia.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 12:32 PM

HahnSolo wrote: The NL team needs a second baseman. I nominate Craig Reynolds as the "guy in back who may have on an Astros cap." You win.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 12:36 PM

There aren't any Giants in that picture. Maybe Jack Clark was held back. Lavelle was their star reliever that year. I'm not gonna say closer with what that being 1979.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 12:39 PM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I have an old baseball mag that reports the following late additions to the NL roster for Japan '79: Elias Sosa, reliever (ATL) Joel YOunglbood (NYM) Joe Ferguson, C (LA) Craig Reynolds, SS (HOU) Gary Matthews OF (ATL) I left out Dave Parker and Bert Blyleven, both Pirates. They were also late additions to the roster.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 02:41 PM

This picture gets freakier and freakier everytime I look at it. Youngblood's uniform is all wrong! His #1 in "18" has a serif. Stearns has the right style #1 digit - sans serif.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 23 2008 02:48 PM

Holy crap that is freaky!

AG/DC Jul 23 2008 02:49 PM

A bunch of them are also wearing shoes branded with an M. Is that an old Mizuno logo?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 23 2008 02:51 PM

I have a feeling that they bought their uniforms and shoes in Japan at Modells (or Herman's!) after they arrived.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 02:52 PM

Yep! The old and original Mizuno logo. Know what else I'm seein'? Youngblood's got black stirrups. (I'm just the messenger here)

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 23 2008 02:52 PM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: This picture gets freakier and freakier everytime I look at it. Youngblood's uniform is all wrong! His #1 in "18" has a serif. Stearns has the right style #1 digit - sans serif. Weird. Also- mis-matched warmup jackets and black stirrups?

cooby Jul 23 2008 08:25 PM

I think the Phillie in the front is Larry Bowa

soupcan Jul 23 2008 08:58 PM

That Phillie is definitely Bowa, not Schmidt. I'm telling you - there was a luggage issue at the airport and they mixed and matched the unis with whatever they could find.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 09:24 PM

I think it's Schmidt and not Bowa. The trick is to put your finger (or thumb) on your computer screen over the Phillie's hair that's sticking out from his cap on the right side of his head. It sticks out too much. With this thumb haircut, he looks more like Schmitty than even Mike Schmidt himself. Plus that choppy-like skin complexion that Schmidt had, especially around his chin (and cheeks). You'll have to stare at the picture up close to get that chin-skin detail. I suggest you press your nose against your computer screen to get a better look at Schmidt's chin. So with your finger covering the right side of his head and your nose right up against your monitor --it's Mike Schmidt. See? Plus the NL already had two shortstops (Ozzie Smith and Craig Reynolds) and wouldn't need a third (Bowa) for a two game exhibition series.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 10:07 PM

The pillbox hats worn by the two Mets in this picture aren't like the Mets Bicentennial caps. The '76 caps had three horizontal orange stripes. These Japanese versions have five or six stripes. This isn't necessarily an error in uniform design, without evidence that the Japanese pillbox hats were intended to mirror the Bicentennials. It's no surprise, though, that the Japanese pillbox hats worn by the ML'ers were manufactured specifically for the All-Star Exhibition, as it would be unreasonable to ask the players (or the teams) to produce hats that in most cases, haven't been worn in three years.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 23 2008 10:24 PM

Here is the original first edition unrevised NL roster for the 1979 Japanese All Star Tour: Pitchers Jim Bibby - Pirates John Candelaria - Pirates Bob Forsch - Cards Gene Garber - Braves Tug McGraw - Phillies Phil Niekro - Braves Dick Tidrow - Cubs Catchers Gary Carter - Expos Ted Simmons - Cards John Stearns - Mets Infielders Larry Bowa - Phillies Steve Garvey - Dodgers Davey Lopes - Dodgers Bill Madlock - Pirates Pete Rose - Phillies Ozzie Smith - Padres Outfielders Lou Brock - Cardinals Jack Clark - Giants George Foster - Reds Dave Kingman - Cubs Greg Luzinski - Phillies No Mike Schmidt, so far, although there is this [url=http://www.shopwiki.com/detail/d=Philadelphia_Phillies_Authentic_1979_Mike_Schmidt_Alternate_Jersey_w%2FTour_of_Japan_Patch_by_Mitchell_&_Ness/jumpToFirst=t/]M&N throwback jersey[/url] from the Japanese tour The League indicated that one additional player will be added to the roster for this nine-game exhibition. Because seven players were eventually added to the original roster, I will assume that some of the later additions were to replace originally named players who could not make the trip to Japan. I will further assume that Bowa was one of those players who could not ultimately make the trip to Japan, based on the later selection of shortstop Craig Reynolds to the roster. Perhaps I am making these assumptions out of some bias to support my idea that the phront-row Phillie is Schmidt. The flaw here, however, is that I have yet to find any reported evidence that Schmidt was named to the NL roster, and am relying entirely on my visual interpretation of the photograph at the top of this thread and that Mitchell & Ness jersey. But Mitchell & Ness wouldn't make a Schmidt Japan '79 jersey if Schmidt never made the trip to Japan, would they?

HahnSolo Jul 24 2008 06:45 AM

Magadan and his Scooby gang are all over the clues in this case.

seawolf17 Jul 24 2008 07:05 AM

Could that be Kid afro sticking out from under that Expos hat? Naah.

HahnSolo Jul 24 2008 07:11 AM

Would be very un-Carterlike to not be front and center at any photo opportunity.

AG/DC Jul 24 2008 07:25 AM

I'm thinking that we're looking at a light-skinned African American back there. Man, Aurelio Lopez's hair could obscure the sun, couldn't it? I'm also leaning towards the idea that the sea blue hat in the back may be on the head of another American Leaguer.

seawolf17 Jul 24 2008 07:55 AM

AG/DC wrote: I'm thinking that we're looking at a light-skinned African American back there. Man, Aurelio Lopez's hair could obscure the sun, couldn't it? I'm also leaning towards the idea that the sea blue hat in the back may be on the head of another American Leaguer. Unless it's some sort of pillbox Dodgers hat.

AG/DC Jul 24 2008 08:05 AM

Yeah, I thout of that, but the Dodgers (especially then) don't strike me as the sort of outfit that would send teammates off to a game in two different uniforms.

HahnSolo Jul 24 2008 08:10 AM

AG/DC wrote: I'm thinking that we're looking at a light-skinned African American back there. Or a tall Latin guy? Tony Perez, anyone?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 24 2008 08:32 AM

seawolf17 wrote: Unless it's some sort of pillbox Dodgers hat. I thought that hat was a Dodger pillbox at first sight. I would assume that every player had a regular cap and a pillbox cap.

seawolf17 Jul 24 2008 08:45 AM

Which could make the mystery man Ron Cey.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 24 2008 08:47 AM

seawolf17 wrote: Which could make the mystery man Ron Cey. If it was Ron Cey in the back row, you'd see air. Unless he was standing on a refrigerator.