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Billy Wagner latest athlete to deal with media problem

metirish Jul 25 2008 08:19 AM

A few things here grabbed my attention , Wagner not happy with Bill Rohden. Here is a thread on what upset Wagner. [url=http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=9702]The Newsicization of the Times[/url] Raissman article today. ] Billy Wagner latest athlete to deal with media problem Thursday, July 24th 2008, 10:00 PM Billy Wagner has been upset with the media. Even upon the Mets' return to first place Thursday, some things just won't change for them. Not on the field. In newspapers. On TV and radio. And everywhere else, great minds spread their message to friend and foe alike. Throughout this vast wasteland of useless information, it's business as usual for the Mets. Very simple business. Either someone associated with the club - a player or front-office type - is upset. Or a media type is upset with the Mets. Billy Wagner carried the torch Wednesday, ticked over a column by Bill Rhoden of the New York Times. Wagner was angry about Rhoden questioning the content of his soul, and his commitment to winning, after the closer was confined to tush duty in the ninth on Tuesday night. Johan Santana was pulled after eight. Wagner did not pitch because he was experiencing muscle spasms in his left shoulder. Mets medics suggested he rest it. Wagner, not above jumping to conclusions, was upset someone else did. Wagner popped his gourd, saying no one should dare doubt his willingness to compete. This was hilarious. We all live in the shadow of doubt. Suggesting Wagner is not the gamer he's cracked up to be is eye-popping stuff. It jumped off the page, straight into Wagner's head. The column generated a strong reaction. Not only from Wagner, but from some of his media pals who found Rhoden's opinion preposterous. The media love Wagner. He's always portrayed as a stand-up guy who loves shooting his mouth off. That's cool. But when someone else had spread the words - borrowed from Wagner's playbook, so to speak - Wagner choked on them. How ironic. And hypocritical. See, Wagner often plays the role of critic, too. That's no revelation. Did anyone forget when he came down hard on Oliver Perez back in May? Guess when you are a part-time media member (Wagner has a weekly spot on ESPN Radio) and a full-time reliever, you hold others to a different standard - especially when you are the target of their criticism. For the record, Rhoden was not the only face on the planet who thought Wagner might have been able to pitch Tuesday night. On Wednesday, Fred Wilpon said: "To the best of my knowledge he possibly could have gone last night." Wilpon quickly followed that statement by praising Jerry Manuel for doing "the right thing" by not using Wagner on Tuesday night. Not only did Wilpon back his interim manager's on-field decision, he went gaga over Manuel's ability to communicate outside the lines. "I am so pleased with the way (Manuel) deals with the media. We tried (with Willie Randolph). We couldn't get that done," Wilpon said. "You know when (Manuel) is telling you something he means it. He may be wrong, but he's telling you the truth. He's not guarded. I'm very pleased with him." Maybe Manuel will now be dispatched to have a conversation with Phillies radio voice Larry Andersen. This is where the media hostility thing with the Mets comes in. As Jose Reyes (index finger extended skyward) circled the bases, after hitting that three-run bomb in the sixth on Wednesday night, Andersen said: "Someone ought to put one in his neck....Acts like he just won the World Series." Andersen, the former pitcher, has a really big venom thing going. Suggesting Reyes, as retribution for the heinous crimes of pointing and dancing, should take a fastball in the neck (which might kill him) is irresponsible - duh. Andersen is now officially charged with AWMI - Announcing While Mentally Impaired. If Andersen was dealing from a full deck, he might have made the same point another way, saying something like: "If I was pitching to Reyes, the next time up he'd be going down." On the Phillies TV side, as Reyes danced his way into the dugout, Chris Wheeler said: "And now he's got to go through all this nonsense, which just infuriates other teams, but that's the thing they (the Mets) do." (By the way, Tom McCarthy - the former Mets radio voice who is now a Phillies broadcaster - also voiced mild displeasure with Reyes' antics. Funny, he didn't have a huge problem with these gyrations when once swapped lines with Mr. Howie Rose.) Maybe we've been hallucinating, but aren't there other players in baseball - even some residing in the NL East - who do the hot dog? Maybe Wheeler was out getting one when these other celebrations were taking place. No need to hide, even the Mets' own voices take issue with Reyes' choreographic stylings. "I don't like all of that," Lee Mazzilli said yesterday on SportsNet New York's pregame show. "Did (Reyes) have his hand up a little too long? I think so." Mazzilli does not travel with the Mets. He won't be a passenger on those charter flights, where Professor Reyes, and others, have been known to conduct their own seminars on media relations. Just ask Keith Hernandez. Thought what Wilpon said was interesting and WTF is up with Anderson(phills radio guy) Did Reyes act improper rounding the bases after that home run , I don't think so given the situation.

themetfairy Jul 25 2008 08:35 AM

That was an interesting comment by Anderson. The same could be said about the entire Phillies staff after they won the July 4th game against the Mets in Philly.

AG/DC Jul 25 2008 08:39 AM

I'm not quite sure what Raissman is saying half the time there. The first half of the column is all over.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 25 2008 08:42 AM

I've had about enough already with people who cannot recognize displays of poor sportsmanship going off on the unsportsmanlike behavior of those who do. Jeez. Andresen's schtick is as a slightly goofy ex-jock, as anyone who's ever listened to him, or saw him play, ought to know. He's not advocating anyone get injured; he's just calling for the Phillies to respond to what he obviously considers to be provocative behavior.

duan Jul 25 2008 12:00 PM

i have to say I hate all this "don't show up the other team" bull shit. You hit a home run you're entitled to get a little excited. I don't care if you do a cartwheel after it's gone, as long as you run until it's over the wall - cause we know what happens if you don't do that. As for the handshakes etc, sure their kinda stupid I'd prefer a good manly hug and the odd kiss like we do in real football.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 25 2008 12:14 PM

Everyone agrees "a little" celebration is warrented; it's that Reyes routinely exceeds many people's definition of "a little." However, the sportsmanlike thing to do is to render that determination moot.

AG/DC Jul 25 2008 12:55 PM

I tend to think all bets are off in the dugout. It's not showing you up if it's pretty much invisiible to the autdience.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 25 2008 01:44 PM

Celebrate all you want, just keep producing. Shoot fireworks out of your ears, do cartwheels around the bases, I don't care. I think people who go ballistic about things like Randy Moss' feigned mooning or Jose Reyes' high-fives are humorless idiots. If you don't like it, fine, but there's no reason to go crazy over it either way. Reserve spouting off for when you refer to honest-to-goodness scumbaginess, like Brett Myers' or Derek Lowe's domestic abuse. Also, if there was a gun to my head and I had to guess whether or not someone is racist and all I knew about them was how they react to Jose Reyes' "antics", I'd feel confident guessing that anyone who says "someone should put one in his neck" is a racist.

Zvon Jul 25 2008 05:06 PM

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: Also, if there was a gun to my head and I had to guess whether or not someone is racist and all I knew about them was how they react to Jose Reyes' "antics", I'd feel confident guessing that anyone who says "someone should put one in his neck" is a racist. Put that race card away my good man. I'd venture to say that race does not have anything to do with this in any way, shape or form. Ask Phils broadcaster Gary Matthews Sr., who said teams would retaliate to his hotdogging until they came to the realization that he was who he is and he wasn't going to stop doing it. If it hasn't happened already, and I think it has, more than likely they recognize that Reyes is not going to stop being Reyes. No matter what they do. I have no problems with dugout dancing. I think its entertaining. As far as Jose's display of his #1 finger, my only thought at the time was " Hey, maybe Jose, maybe if we won last nights game, but I think thats a little premature". Then I thought "thats Jose and he is who he is and the Phils know that". I would assume J-Roll snickered/laughed if he saw it. If retaliating against Reyes occurred to anyone on the Phils squad, I'm sure it was put on the back burner during this series. And thats all that matters to me. I consider what the booth says during a game the same as dugout dances, entertainment. I heard what the Phil TV guy Wheeler said ["And now he's got to go through all this nonsense, which just infuriates other teams, but that's the thing they do."] and he even added "He's got to stop that crap." (<or something close to that). I laughed. I found that very funny that they were so incensed they said that. I didn't hear what Larry said at that time, but if I did I would have thought: " STFU Larry. Thats why your up in a booth and not a pitching coach. Cause your and idiot." Not an idiot for thinking it thought,..and not for saying it out loud on the air, but for using the phase "in the neck". Once again, words brought forth from the emotion of the moment and I have to like when a player on my team causes such a stir. I know when I saw Jose running all the way from rounding 1st to second base with his finger held up it occurred to me there may be repercussions for that. I won't be surprised if down the line the Phils plunk Reyes with extreme prejudice, and I don't mean that in a racial way. I mean it in a baseball way.

Frayed Knot Jul 25 2008 05:23 PM

]Put that race card away my good man. I'd venture to say that race does not have anything to do with this in any way, shape or form. Or it might. It's worth noting that talk radio here in NYC had loads of stuff to say in the last day or two about Reyes's finger-in-the-air and hugs/handshakes show (from hosts, from Met fans, from Phils fans,and from the occasional MFY fan chiming in) but nothing about Wright's fist-pumping/high-fiving accompanied by a primal scream after scoring in Thursday's game. Overt racism? Probably not, but the attitude that sees that sort of act from one shade of player as a positive sign of grit, heart and determination yet labels it showy and demeaning from another shade/background could have its basis there, even if it's not a conscious decision.

Kong76 Jul 25 2008 05:29 PM

Reyes has toned it down a lot as far as I've noticed. He is number one, he bats first. Phuck the Phils.

AG/DC Jul 25 2008 07:24 PM

I absoultely thinks race subtley plays into it. Coould you imagine a braid-wearing blackfella carrying on like Lenny Dykstra? He'd be destroyed on the FAN on a nightly basis. On the other hand, Kevn McReynolds laid-back attitude would've been looked at as as quiet dignified professionalism if he was black.

duan Jul 26 2008 06:46 AM

I look at it like this - in football we rightly go totally bananas if we score, it's a fantastic experience, it's not better then sex but it's got it's own kinda joy going on and that's why you play the thing. Now, one of the reason why I essentially dislike basketball is the innate frequency of scoring, it means that there's no real joy in the moment, there's only joy if you do it in the last minute when the game is tight. Baseball's a lot closer to football - and a 3 run homer is probably pretty equivalent to the worth of a goal and for the person doing it it's like a long range thunderbolt. How people expect someone to 'think' and go, "hmm, that was really good - but I better not get too excited or i'll be showing up the other team" boggles the mind. In fact, it reeks of people playing the game just for the money and experiencing no joy from it all. Fuck that.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jul 26 2008 07:08 AM

Zvon wrote: Put that race card away my good man. Sorry, Z, but I think race has a HUGE impact on how broadcasters react to players' actions, and Anderson's comments didn't happen in a vacuum. Black and latino athletes are consistently treated differently by the overwhelmingly white sports media. I hear crap like this about Reyes or Strahan all the time while guys like Paul O'Neill or Jeremy Shockey were treated like fiery competitors for basically the same behavior. FK suggested that it may not be overt, but in 2008, if you are an announcer and you are not aware of the racial implications of statements like what Anderson made, it is only because you're being willfully ignorant or openly defiant. What Anderson said is not racist, but it's a big time red flag for me.

TheOldMole Jul 26 2008 07:27 AM

"Racist" has entered the realm of a kind of Gresham's Law of language. It's come to have no meaning at all in so many contexts that it's hard to use in contexts where it does make sense. I know many people of the conservative persuasion, some of them Civil Rights Movement veterans whose hearts have been broken by today's African-Americans not being satisfied and grateful for solving all their problems for them. They rail passionately against racism, but they don't believe that any white racism exists in America any more -- only black racism. And I don't think a guy like Anderson -- or the people that Willie Randolph referred to -- harbor ill will towards black people. I do believe they're racially insensitive, and that they allow themselves to drift into exactly the attitudes Edgy describes it. And I don't have an answer for this, but "racist" has been so co-opted by the right that it's lost meaning -- it degenerates into "You're a racist" -- "No, you're a racist." Which is why I came to disallow the term altogether on my News BB. And Zvon, with all the respect in the world, I think "playing the race card" as a response to every discussion about race falls into the same category. It doesn't have much meaning left. Some discussions about racial attitudes in America are legitimate, and should be heard.