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The Other Brian Giles (split from 8/7 IGT)

Gwreck Aug 07 2008 09:15 AM

The San Diego Union Tribute is [url=http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/padres/2008/aug/07/red-sox-claim-giles/?padres]reporting[/url] that the Red Sox put a waiver claim in for Brian Giles, who's not in the lineup today.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 07 2008 09:19 AM

Huh! The Mets would have priority over the Red Sox, I'd think. I wonder if they can jump in there. (I suspect though that the Red Sox and Padres have a deal in place, and if Giles doesn't clear, the waivers would be revoked.)

AG/DC Aug 07 2008 09:21 AM

Bay and Giles are turning into the same person.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 07 2008 09:26 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Huh! The Mets would have priority over the Red Sox, I'd think. I wonder if they can jump in there. (I suspect though that the Red Sox and Padres have a deal in place, and if Giles doesn't clear, the waivers would be revoked.) Is anyone beginning to think that maybe Omar's not been allowed to pursue any trades at this point? I am not the kinda fan who demands changes but seems like if you were ever in need of making some this was the time. Omar it now seems clear made too few changes last deadline and way too few last offseason too.

metirish Aug 07 2008 09:27 AM

The article claims that Giles cleared National League waivers and that after Boston only Tampa and the Angels can lay claims. I didn't know it worked like that , first you clear your own league then you go to the AL.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 07 2008 09:44 AM

Omar really hasn't behaved like the GM of a team in the heart of a division race in mid and late July. It's all been about waiting. Waiting for Alou. Waiting for Church. Waiting for Orlando Hernandez. Now they got lucky with Tatis, and they may get lucky again with Daniel Murphy. And maybe with Eddie Kunz. But Omar's been really passive this year. It's strange that he has this reputation for "aggressiveness." I think, overall, he's a mediocre GM. If he's let go after the season, I won't have any complaints.

sharpie Aug 07 2008 09:53 AM

Isn't it some kind of gentleman's agreement that you don't put in waiver claims on players gratuitously? If the Pads and Bosox have a deal in place that's one thing but if not are the Sox trying to stop the Rays from getting Giles? I don't see where the Sox need Giles, they already have 4 starting outfielders (Bay, Crisp, Ellsbury and Drew) and a full-time DH in Ortiz.

AG/DC Aug 07 2008 09:56 AM

While turning over particular minor-leaguers may be initially unwise or wise, initially work or not work, I don't think it's fair to say that any one that works out on initial performance is by definition a matter of luck, any more than Jeff Conine hitting last year would be, by definitiion, a matter of luck. They are all calculated risks. The issue is whether his caluclatoins jive with yours, or are the wisest. I think they've done a good job this year re-tooling their system, and it's somewhat satisfying to see nobody fly away in return for some name-brand yo-yo. I mean, it was somewhat unsatisfying to see them lose last night fer shure, but I've been through too many "do something" moments with the mets that has seen them do something that hurt long term, sometimes quite badly.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 07 2008 10:16 AM

It isn't just about waiting but being overly satisfied with the status quo. With all the caveats about hindsight being 20/20 and injuries being difficult to predict and all, looks like he could have (and should have) fired Willie sooner. He shouldn't have brought back the entire bullpen intact -- only Schoeneweis is having a better year. He didn't do enough to build an adequate bench and relied instead on getting repeat performances that were hard to replicate. Even Easley who's having a nice season wasn't going to go out and hit 10 homers in half a season like he did last year. He overcommitted to Castillo given his health if not production, and gathered in an everyday player not good enough to play everyday in Schneider. Now he sat on his hands while a half-dozen great players and several good ones changed addresses in a season where any small edge could win a pennant and the team had such obvious holes.

Frayed Knot Aug 07 2008 10:25 AM

Part of the difficulty making deals now is the result of dealing 5 prospects in order to fill 3 seperate holes (SP, RF, C) before the season even started.

AG/DC Aug 07 2008 11:01 AM

The pen: well, he got Wise, and I guess Lugo, but yeah. The bench: yeeah also, but, well, yeah. I wonder if anybody really has a consistently effective bench these days, now that a lot of teams are carrying 13 pitchers, and versatility trumps ability in winning an increasingly rare bench spot. I, like all, wonder what madness is drving the three-catcher system, while real batsmen wait for a call.. On Schneid: You know the worst thing, the worst thing about the Schneid? It's that he's been just about as good as we have any right to expect. More singles but fewer extra-base hits (and that's hard to do) puts him performing pretty much along his career arc.

Frayed Knot Aug 07 2008 11:17 AM

]You know the worst thing, the worst thing about the Schneid? It's that he's been just about as good as we have any right to expect. More singles but fewer extra-base hits (and that's hard to do) puts him performing pretty much along his career arc. The slugging has been pathetic - even for him. His recent IsoP numbers: 2003 - .164 2004 - .142 2005 - .141 2006 - .072 2007 - .101 So you figure, OK, maybe it's been declining somewhat but '06 & '07 could be partially a result of RFK and, either way, 2006 looks like a real outlier But then 2008 (to date) is humming along at a sub-Castillo level of .051 and you wonder how it was that he ever hit.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 07 2008 11:21 AM

I'm always happier to see Castro's name in the starting lineup.

smg58 Aug 07 2008 11:23 AM

A bench of Tatis, Anderson, Easley, Chavez, and Castro would really be pretty good even given Anderson's current hitting (or the lack thereof). The real problem is that three of those guys have been pressed into more regular service due to injuries and poor play from guys Minaya invested more heavily in. Minaya not only counted on a bad bullpen getting better by itself, but on getting 80+ quality innings from Heilman and 80+ at least decent innings from Jorge Sosa. And on having the 2006 Duaner Sanchez. Given what has happened to Heilman and Sosa, I'm actually pleasantly surprised by what we've gotten from the others. It could have been a lot worse. I agree with Frayed Knot's point that our farm system is a bit depleted, but the Diamondbacks got Jon Rauch for a C+ infield prospect who's only a little better than Argenis Reyes. We have plenty of guys in the system who would have constituted a better offer.

seawolf17 Aug 07 2008 11:44 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Waiting for Orlando Hernandez. Who? ="sharpie"]Isn't it some kind of gentleman's agreement that you don't put in waiver claims on players gratuitously? If the Pads and Bosox have a deal in place that's one thing but if not are the Sox trying to stop the Rays from getting Giles? I don't see where the Sox need Giles, they already have 4 starting outfielders (Bay, Crisp, Ellsbury and Drew) and a full-time DH in Ortiz. Like when the Yankees got stuck with Jose Canseco.

sharpie Aug 07 2008 11:48 AM

ESPN reporting that Bosox really want Giles 'cause they fear that Lowell and/or Ortiz might go down with injuries. Also, Boston one of the teams that Giles can be traded to without his consent.

Frayed Knot Aug 07 2008 11:54 AM

]Like when the Yankees got stuck with Jose Canseco That one was a uniquely Yanqui fuck-up. A season or two earlier some veteren bat (might have been Harold Baines) cleared waivers and was traded to a NYY competitor during the stretch drive. This caused Mt. St. George to blow his stack and threaten to fire everyone if anyone ever got through waivers unclaimed ever again. So the next season when the Yanx put in a blocking claim on Caseco his team (Jays?) tied a ribbon around him and put him on the next NY-bound express train. IIRC that whole deal cost the Yanx $1mil or so bucks for 6 weeks of a DH they didn't need plus another couple hundred K to buy out the following year's option.

Farmer Ted Aug 08 2008 12:36 PM

Giles nixes the waiver claim to Boston. Surf's still up in Sandy Eggo for now.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 08 2008 12:39 PM

He'd rather be a Padre than a playoff-contending Red Sock?

metirish Aug 08 2008 12:52 PM

I don't know what to make of that , on the one hand Giles is from SD so maybe he would rather not leave the family to play part time in Boston , but maybe you accept the trade and SD gets a kid in return who one day might help them.

seawolf17 Aug 08 2008 01:07 PM

I've always wondered why players don't rent themselves out for a prospect or two or whatever for a month and a half, then just re-sign with your old team. Go to Boston, live the pennant race life for a few months, then sign back in SD in December. It's all good, and you've helped your team by getting some prospects too.

attgig Aug 08 2008 01:17 PM

I wonder if the redsox knew about the no trade clause before hand.

metirish Aug 08 2008 01:27 PM

That is easy to find out. http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=1016 Contract: signed 3-year deal worth 30M thru 2008 season on 12/1/05- + he receives a 2M signing bonus and salaries of 7M in 2006, 9M in 2007 and 9M in 2008- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2009 worth 9M or a 3M buyout- + if traded, his salary rises by 2M- + he receives a full NO-TRADE clause in 2006 and a limited NO-TRADE clause in 2007 and 2008 that allows him to veto trades to eight teams (BOS, BAL, DET, WAS, MIL, TAM, FLA and PIT) Agent: Joe Bick

TransMonk Aug 08 2008 04:02 PM

mlb4u.com wrote: ...a limited NO-TRADE clause in 2007 and 2008 that allows him to veto trades to eight teams (BOS, BAL, DET, WAS, MIL, TAM, FLA and PIT) I can't seem to figure out what these 8 teams have in common that would make him choose these 8 as the ones he doesn't want to go to.

AG/DC Aug 08 2008 05:06 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 08 2008 08:08 PM

Well, most of them are perennial losers, or at least were when he signed his deal. Boston, on the other hand --- who wouldn't want to play in a left field the size of a bedsheet and get a chance to beat the Yankees 18 times a year? It's the American dream.

smg58 Aug 08 2008 07:58 PM

He must have really hated his years in Pittsburgh. Curiously, the list has a whole bunch of east coast teams but neither team from New York.