Master Index of Archived Threads


Maine May Close?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 11 2008 09:22 PM

The Snooze sorta has it all Magic Quoted ("I'll try anything!") but Marty Noble is specific saying Manuel anointing Kunz the new closer, then Maine following recovery from his start on Wednesday (and presumably until Wagner returns, also a short time). Maybe this means Niese or Stokes continues to start? I know he hasn't had a great run but Muniz has as much if not more "closer experience" as Kunz, but that he's not being considered suggests to me that the Mets really are making their decisions on "stuff" and going from there. I hate the idea of losing a starter of Maine's capability even for a turn though I will say he seems like he'd make a fine closer: He's got a bulldog demeanor, strikeout stuff and has encountered durabilitty issues that could make an argument for a lighter workload. Food for thought?

AG/DC Aug 11 2008 10:08 PM

I'd piss on on a sparkplug if it would help.

holychicken Aug 12 2008 06:00 AM

By "close" I think he means pitch the 7,8 and 9 of every game.

smg58 Aug 12 2008 06:07 AM

If Wags is back on Monday and Maine is starting Wednesday, there's no reason to do that. I also think fooling around with Maine is risky even if Wagner takes longer than that, and you'd be creating as big a hole in the rotation as you'd be filling in the bullpen. It may not sound particularly assertive, but I think you go with a closer-by-committee until either Wagner comes back or somebody grabs the position by the horns. You know it's kind of funny, but for all the flack Wagner took during his rough stretch in June, it's pretty clear that his value wasn't fully appreciated until he was gone for two weeks.

metirish Aug 12 2008 06:51 AM

smg58 wrote: It may not sound particularly assertive, but I think you go with a closer-by-committee until either Wagner comes back or somebody grabs the position by the horns. Isn't that what the Mets are doing , it hasn't worked and no one has stepped up to grab the job.

metirish Aug 12 2008 07:04 AM

Prior to last night though Heilman had a win and two saves in his previous three outings , I think the role needs to be defined by Manuel....name a closer. Maine. "It hasn't been talked about seriously," Maine said, then added enough thought to indicate it has been talked about semi-seriously. "For the most part, I go out and have good first innings, and that's all they're looking for is one inning. Hopefully, it would be only 15 pitches, three, four times a week. It won't be as bad for my shoulder as going out there and throwing 110, 120. Whatever they ask me to do, I'll do it."

Frayed Knot Aug 12 2008 07:12 AM

Unless and until the penners start pitching better Jerry can shuffle the roles all he wants but it's going to be akin to as rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic It's not like mis-matched roles are causing sudden suckitude. Nor, contrary to popular belief, are the starters leaving the pen too much work. NYM starters are covering right around a league avg of IPs. 1st half pen ERA = 3.91; 2nd half = 6.82

AG/DC Aug 12 2008 07:22 AM

That Jorge Sosa release didn't quite add up to addition by subtraction. Not that it hurt. He's had a 4.66 ERA in Round Rock and Tacoma. What I would've liked to have seen is Collazo and Lugo at least getting a lookie while they were in uniform. I was guessing that they were putting some hope in Orlando Hernandez, but, last I heard, he was waiting on a special cleat to relieve bunion pain. He opted not to have bunion surgery after last season because he didn't want to miss the time at the end of his career. Orlando, yo pense, you're going to miss it anyway. Get your self taken care of.

Centerfield Aug 12 2008 08:08 AM

Do any of the relievers have options? Smith probably does. I'd be all for letting Claudio Vargas, Stokes and Niese have a crack at the late innings rather then risk Maine or allow these losers to keep fucking things up.

attgig Aug 12 2008 08:51 AM

I don't want a brett myers on the mets

HahnSolo Aug 12 2008 09:14 AM

Neither does Maine's significant other.

TheOldMole Aug 12 2008 11:15 AM

It worked for Smoltz and Righetti. They can't keep blowing late inning leads like this.

Frayed Knot Aug 12 2008 11:26 AM

TheOldMole wrote: It worked for Smoltz and Righetti. Smoltz was put in the pen out of necessity because they were afraid his post-surgical arm couldn't take the strain of starter innings. Righetti, I always contend, was a mistake. Having the big stud closer was just coming into fashion then and George decided he had to have one too so he jumped on Righetti's sophmore slump season as an excuse to make him into one and prove his baseball genius. Both did well as closers but my guess is that most good starters would do well as closers given the chance. The problem is that you not only take a good arm and reduce its use from 200 or so innings down to 65 but you create a hole in the rotation. Personally, as long as Maine is healthy, I'd opt for more Maine and patch the pen holes with Kunz/Stokes, etc rather than the other way around.

Frayed Knot Aug 12 2008 11:37 AM

Centerfield wrote: Do any of the relievers have options? Smith probably does. Probably just Smith among the main guys. ]I'd be all for letting Claudio Vargas, Stokes and Niese have a crack at the late innings rather then risk Maine or allow these losers to keep fucking things up. Well one guy needs to go tomorrow to make room for Maine and then another on Monday for Wagner. Muniz is probably one but after that I'm up for anything at this point.

Fman99 Aug 12 2008 08:21 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Personally, as long as Maine is healthy, I'd opt for more Maine and patch the pen holes with Kunz/Stokes, etc rather than the other way around. I agree 100%. I absolutely think that the rotation should remain intact as long as Maine, Ollie, Johan, Petey and Pelf are all healthy enough to go.

AG/DC Aug 12 2008 08:29 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 12 2008 09:06 PM

OK, you've got 12 pitchers to build a staff out of. They've all started in the minor leagues exclusively, and they've all got more or less the same repetoire --- 50% fastballs, 23% curves, 20% changeups, no sinkers. What I'm trying to say, is all things are equal except the net quality of their ability. You rank them 1-12 in overall effectiveness. Which of the first six guys do you open the seaosn with as your closer?

Nymr83 Aug 12 2008 09:03 PM

i'd use my best 5 as starters. but i also wouldnt be against such things as a 4-man rotation and/or the starters throwing in relief on their days off, particulary if they are pretty good and some of important guys in the bullpen (pitchers 6 through 9 lets say) arent that good

Fman99 Aug 13 2008 10:11 AM

Nymr83 wrote: i'd use my best 5 as starters. Yep. The better a pitcher you are, the more innings you should be throwing. No shock then, I suppose, that the Mets bullpen are their worst pitchers these days.

AG/DC Aug 13 2008 10:16 AM

Does anybody believe anymore that some innings are more valuable than others --- some far more valuable?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 13 2008 10:40 AM

So I don;t know if you all read this already but Jerry's public musings of moving starters over to do the bullpen's job was apparently intended to a message to the bullpen to shape up, and one that was received: The Show yesterday called a "bullpen meeting" where they all discussed it -- "Hey, these guys can't take our jobs!" and got 'em all fired up to stop sucking and stuff.

Nymr83 Aug 13 2008 12:35 PM

AG/DC wrote: Does anybody believe anymore that some innings are more valuable than others --- some far more valuable? even if some innings are more valuable, i refuse to believe that they are valuable enough that you'd want a guy to give you 70 innings instead if 200, assuming he is going to pitch about as well (if you tell me that a starter with a 4.50 ERA is suddenly going to pitch to a 2.50 because he only has to concentrate on one inning that may be another story)

Vic Sage Aug 13 2008 01:51 PM

I think the value of late innings, as compared to earlier innings, is proporational to the potency of a team's offense. If you jump on the opposing team early and stay ahead, you'll get into the weakest part of their bullpen (middle relievers who pitch when their team is losing), while you are going with either a strong starter at least thru the 6th or 7th, and then to your best relievers. The quality of your bullpen in that scenario becomes less and less a factor if your offense can continue to beat up on their crappiest pitchers. If, on the other hand, your offense is of the pop gun variety, then you are constantly in "pitcher's duels", and 1 late inning run can win or lose a game. Such an offense puts enormous strain on a pitching staff (a bullpen, especially) while making the last few outs more critical. That being said, I'd rather have my best pitchers pitch the majority of innings, and then bolster the offense to make the late innings less signficant.

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 07:56 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 20 2008 08:31 AM

Joel Sherman posts at 3:19 AM, when the insanity just flows. http://www.nypost.com/seven/08202008/sports/mets/pelfrey_to_pen_perfect_in_pinch_125210.htm I like how he basically states his thesis, then ignores it for nine paragraphs, as if reviewing the problem is all that's needed to make his idea look sensical. Then his one supporting statement at the end comes in the form of a non-specific (magic?) quote from the always reliable "Rival GM."

Vince Coleman Firecracker Aug 20 2008 08:24 AM

]PELFREY TO PEN PERFECT IN PINCH I'm disappointed in the Post. There's plenty of opportunity for more alliteration in that headline. How about: ]PUTTING PROFICIENT PELFREY IN PEN TO PITCH POSSIBLY PERFECT IN PINCH

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 08:31 AM

Say it with Daffy Duck's voice.

metsguyinmichigan Aug 20 2008 08:36 AM

I could see one of these guys closing in the post-season, when you can go with a four-man rotation. Two problems there, though. 1) Getting to the post-season in the first place with this pen. 2) Loss of a long man in the post-season games. Think of Sid in 1986 and Ryan in 1969. You'd think they'd want a real starter for this role, especially for the games with Pedro, who we know tends to go shorter than the others.

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 08:39 AM

1) Keep in mind that our starters seem to be winning us more games than our relievers are costing us of late. 2) The augmentation of the bullpen by back-end starters in the post-season is a good thing no matter where they pitch.

Vic Sage Aug 20 2008 09:00 AM

i get the distinct feeling that Sherman came up with the opening line "best man for the Joba", and then tried to build a column around it. Then, still basking in the glow of self-satisfaction, he repeated the line at the end. But its not that good a line in the first place, and certainly not worth repeating.

OlerudOwned Aug 20 2008 10:31 AM

]But Cincinnati's David Weathers intrigues the Mets because he has New York experience (having played for the Mets and Yanks) and he has 74 career saves. I hope that he meant "intrigues Joel Sherman, jackass Post columnist" when he said "intrigues the Mets."