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Delgado has cooled off, folks

Vic Sage Aug 19 2008 11:18 AM

After Carlos Delgado had a torrid July, alot of peeps sprained their elbows self-flagellating for prematurely burying him. It should be noted, however, that he's cooled off considerably in August, and has hit .146 over a 13-game span during the last 2 weeks, though he has produced a healthy 3hr/9rbi/7r during this stretch. Would you be shocked beyond human ken if he continued his current cold streak thru September? I wouldn't. And would those peeps who did backflips, going from demanding Delgado be released to demanding his option be immediately picked up, do another 180? And if they did, would their spinal damage be irreparable?

TheOldMole Aug 19 2008 11:19 AM

Would you be shocked if he started to hit again?

Gwreck Aug 19 2008 11:40 AM

Let's say that he levels off or even cools off a little more, and winds up with: .250, 30 HR, 95 RBI for the season, .810 OPS. (current: .255, 26 HR, 79 RBI, .825 OPS) I'd still probably sign him for the one year option.

Gwreck Aug 19 2008 11:41 AM

Other free-agent "first basemen:" Rich Aurilia SF Ben Broussard TEX Carlos Delgado * NYM Nomar Garciaparra LAD Jason Giambi * NYY Wes Helms PHI Kevin Millar BAL Richie Sexson NYY Mark Teixeira LAA Frank Thomas OAK Jim Thome CWS Daryle Ward CHC * Denotes club option.

Centerfield Aug 19 2008 11:42 AM

I wouldn't be shocked if he picked up from his current slump, but I would be shocked if he put together another month with at 1.100+ OPS. I was shocked to see such a month come out of nowhere (and was shocked the hot streak lasted as long as it did). Unfortunately, all of the other months since the start of the 2007 season have looked about the same with an OPS hovering in the high .700's.

smg58 Aug 19 2008 11:43 AM

I see no point in dwelling on who said what about Delgado and when. You're right that there's no guarantee for his production the rest of the way, but he's earned the right to be our first baseman for the rest of the season. I'll worry about his option later, although I think he needs to more than he's done to this point before I'd pick it up.

Nymr83 Aug 19 2008 01:28 PM

from Gwreck's 1B FA list... Carlos Delgado * NYM (36 years old, 117 OPS+ this year, 103 last year.) you know what you're getting with him and thats an (at this point) average hitter with an average glove. he has the benefit of being under the Met' control for next year without having to worry about being tied to a multi-year deal. Rich Aurilia SF (36yo, 90 OPS+, 73 last year) he's old. he sucks, and he's either injury prone or gets benched alot because his games played the last 5 years starting with this year are: 110, 99, 122, 114, & 124. he's Moises Alou without the bat. Ben Broussard TEX (31, 33, 96) decent but not good numbers in the minors this year, good glove from what i remember, has done nothing with his limited playing time in the big leagues this year. Nomar Garciaparra LAD (34, 103, 78) can't stay healthy or hit much anymore Jason Giambi * NYY (37, 139, 108) steroids. yankeeness. pass. Wes Helms PHI (32, 80, 68) has never really been a fulltime player and shouldn't be one now. Kevin Millar BAL (36, 101, 106) consistently average, like aurilia he either gets benched or hurt alot because he doesnt play full seasons. Richie Sexson NYY (33, 90, 84) only a couple of years removed from success, but wow has the fall been steep. dfa'd by the yankees. Mark Teixeira LAA (28, 145, 150) Boras wants an Arod contract. Frank Thomas OAK (40, 102, 125) hof lock, but his skills are starting to slip. should retire with 500 homers and a .419 career OBP and 19th on the career OPS+ list Jim Thome CWS (37, 127, 150) worrisome downward trends in several categories. better than delgado but a good bet to suffer a delgado-like downturn in '09 or '10. Daryle Ward CHC (33, 94, 144) decent hitter, not sure how he'd work out fulltime though. looking at these options it might be safest to exercise delgado's option (a decision that i'm assuming has to be made before the mets can even speak to texiera) i dont think its worth letting delgado walk and then if we dontget texiera having to negotiate with him along with everyone else and likely getting stuck with a 2-3 year deal or an expensive buyout on an option.

AG/DC Aug 19 2008 07:43 PM

Cool happens. I'll worry about that option not a second sooner than I have to. I'll take that dcuble in the meantime.

Vic Sage Aug 20 2008 08:50 AM

if you don't want to think about our 1b situation in `09 at this point, that's fine. It is your right and privilege. But this thread is addressed to those who do. Sure, I'll take that double, too. who wouldn't? that wasn't my point. What i am addressing is whether those folks who (1) demanded we release Delgado because of his awful Apri-June (despite the lack of adequate alternative options), and then (2) wanted us to pick up a $12M option because of his hot July, still feel that he's the $12m man, after 2 weeks of hitting .150. With a team that has probably around $90M committed to a dozen players next year, plus some arbitration eligible players (including Maine and Church, I think), do we really want to commit another $12m to an aging, declining 1bman based on a hot 5-week stretch (no matter how good that stretch was), despite glaring needs elsewhere. And our only 1B options aren't limited to that FA list. There are trades, and there are players in the system. Might we do better with any or a combo of Evans, Murphy, Carp, etc, playing for minimum wage, and spending the $12M on a corner OFer, SPer or reliever(s)? The view that, at least you know what your going to get with Delgado (as expressed above) is one i totally disagree with. I have no idea what we're going to get from Delgado the rest of this year, much less next year. He could revert to his form of April-June, he could have another July spurt, he could continue his boom & bust August... nobody knows what the trajectory is of his season, much less his career, at this point. Age and injury makes him a crapshoot... and a difficult point to make.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Aug 20 2008 09:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 20 2008 09:34 AM

Vic Sage wrote: do we really want to commit another $12m to an aging, declining 1bman based on a hot 5-week stretch Well, he has a $4 million buy-out if you don't pick up the option, so it's really only an $8 million commitment to keep him. Oh, and you didn't list Adam Dunn with your first basemen- he's played 108 games there in his career. I think, depending on the rest of the season, of course, that whether the Mets pick up the option or not depends on how they feel about Murphy/Carp/Evans/Davis. If they think one of them will be a good first baseman in a year or so, I could see them keeping Delgado for 2009 while mixing in his replacement candidates. If they don't think any of those prospects will be great, they might buy out Delgado to try and sign either Tex or Dunn. Personally, I think it's worth it to put the money you'll save from Alou's, El Duque's and Delgado's contracts and put that towards Teixiera (the team could use the money they'll save from Pedro's contract to land a pitcher). Teixiera is an elite hitter in his prime, and while he'll be expensive, he'll also be great.

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 09:33 AM

Vic Sage wrote: What i am addressing is whether those folks who (1) demanded we release Delgado because of his awful Apri-June (despite the lack of adequate alternative options), and then (2) wanted us to pick up a $12M option because of his hot July, still feel that he's the $12m man, after 2 weeks of hitting .150. Well, "those folks" in (2) include a sort-of tongue-in-cheek Rockin' Doc --- based on a theoretical load more of productivity than his hot run, a similar longshot if/then commitment from holy chicken --- and that's about it. http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=9716 What would be at issue is apparently eight million, because four million of his 2009 salary is already guaranted.

RealityChuck Aug 20 2008 09:57 AM

Ultimately, Delgado is the safest and probably best choice for 2009. If we knew we could get Teixeira, then buy out Delgado and jump it, but that's a real gamble. Teixeira will create a bidding war and Boras is going to go for the money. There's a good chance the Yankees will outbid us, and leave us with a bunch of untried minor leaguers or fading former stars. Keep Delgado and see how the young players develop. They see about using them in 2010.

Centerfield Aug 20 2008 12:02 PM

I believe $12 million is at issue. $4 million is guaranteed regardless, and is not part of the $12 million.

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 12:13 PM

Correct.

Gwreck Aug 20 2008 12:44 PM

We've been through this a few times before -- it's $8 million at issue. The option only vests at $16 million based on MVP and Postseason MVP voting, and Delgado would essentially have to win both NLCS and WS MVPs for that to happen. Otherwise, the option is for $12 million or a $4 million buyout. Hence, keeping Delgado for 2009 will be a decision with $8 million at issue.

metirish Aug 20 2008 12:47 PM

Of which not one penny will be ours to pay.

RealityChuck Aug 20 2008 12:50 PM

metirish wrote: Of which not one penny will be ours to pay. As long as you're not buying tickets. :)

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 12:57 PM

Then I was correct. Hey!

metirish Aug 20 2008 12:59 PM

RealityChuck wrote: ="metirish"]Of which not one penny will be ours to pay. As long as you're not buying tickets. :) Ha , so much for me being a smart arse.

TheOldMole Aug 21 2008 08:58 PM

Another good night for Delgado.

AG/DC Aug 21 2008 10:59 PM

More argument for reserving judgment. And not jumping to judgment accusing peeps of, um, jumping to judgment.

MFS62 Aug 22 2008 06:37 AM

Isn't jumping to conclusions the sport that's going to replace baseball in future Olympics? Later

metirish Aug 22 2008 06:54 AM

The scorer gave Carlos a hit for that AB in which he lined out to Infante , why was that not an error?

seawolf17 Aug 22 2008 07:29 AM

Because the game was played at Shea; a little hometown scoring never hurts.

Centerfield Aug 22 2008 10:42 AM

="Gwreck"]We've been through this a few times before -- it's $8 million at issue. The option only vests at $16 million based on MVP and Postseason MVP voting, and Delgado would essentially have to win both NLCS and WS MVPs for that to happen. Otherwise, the option is for $12 million or a $4 million buyout. Hence, keeping Delgado for 2009 will be a decision with $8 million at issue. My mistake. At $8 million, you keep him. If you sign Texiera, trade Delgado and pay part of the $8 million.

AG/DC Aug 22 2008 11:01 AM

Fans are funny. Delgado has a complete no-trade clause.

Centerfield Aug 22 2008 11:02 AM

Forgive me. I've been eating paint chips from the seats at Shea.

themetfairy Aug 22 2008 02:14 PM

CF is on a roll today :)

attgig Aug 25 2008 11:14 AM

you have to think about 2010 free agent 1bmen if you're going to think about picking up the option or not. First Basemen Carlos Delgado NYM Jason Giambi NYY Ross Gload * KC Wes Helms FLA Aubrey Huff BAL Nick Johnson WAS Adam LaRoche PIT Robb Quinlan LAA Matt Stairs TOR (again, * = club option, and 1st two assuming their 09 options are picked up) it'll be interesting to see if huff can be as good as he's been this year, and if LaRoche develops at all. all that to say... let's worry about this later.

metirish Aug 25 2008 11:17 AM

What about Murphy playing first in the near future?

AG/DC Aug 25 2008 11:31 AM

It's a possiblity. Evans and Carp are also there. The reality is that this team looks pretty good for the near future, not least because Omar Minaya didn't deal at the deadline in an attempt to save to save our dodgy present.

AG/DC Aug 25 2008 05:52 PM

Three-run homer to lead off the scoring. This is why it's no time to get your bets down. Let the games be played.

holychicken Aug 25 2008 08:23 PM

We must sign Delgado to a 10 year 20 mil per year deal NOW!

Elster88 Aug 25 2008 09:26 PM

Delgado in August .259 AVG, .347 OBP, .494 SLG, 85 AB, 5 2B, 5 HR, 21 RBI, 12 R, 12 BB, 17 K Edit: Not including today's game.

AG/DC Aug 25 2008 10:45 PM

Pretty much dead on his season numbers of .260 / .344 / .493.

Elster88 Aug 25 2008 10:52 PM

Yah his numbers are not terrible, but ideally I'd like them for a guy hitting 6th or below. Without looking I'd guess he puts up below average numbers for a first baseman, but since we get above average out of CF and SS that should be ok. And if Church stays healthy in right and continues his hitting he could bat fifth. I'd be concerned having below average production from first AND left, but maybe we get a left fielder (or maybe Murphy can keep it up) and maybe CF and SS are enough to counteract that. I'd still like to throw the Wilpons' money at Teixiera but that might get out of hand. If Wright, Reyes, or Beltran ever missed a lot of time we'd be in some trouble with our current lineup.

Farmer Ted Aug 26 2008 07:25 AM

Yeah, frigid last night. 4-2-2-6 line score.

Frayed Knot Aug 26 2008 07:58 AM

]Without looking I'd guess he puts up below average numbers for a first baseman Ranked by OPS he's smack in the middle (7th) of the 13 NL 1st baseman who qualify with enough ABs - Behind Pujols, Berkman, Teixeira, Fielder, A. Gonzalez, & Conor Jackson - Ahead of Derrick Lee, LaRoche, Votto, Loney, Howard & Jacobs

AG/DC Aug 26 2008 08:08 AM

A split OPS+ of 99 when comparied to other firstbasemen, so yeah, almost dead average, but, technically at least, below average. And that's probably a 100 or 101 if you give him back his homer at Yankee Stadium.

AG/DC Aug 27 2008 07:48 PM

Delgado is a walking streak of sex, folks.

Elster88 Aug 27 2008 08:09 PM

="MFS62"]Isn't jumping to conclusions the sport that's going to replace baseball in future Olympics? It will be played on this: