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A Plan

Farmer Ted Aug 20 2008 01:18 PM

The Reds think they have one. Not sure Steve Phillips ever got around to telling us HIS plan, but those were great discussions on the board, huh? This thing was buried on their website... http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/cin/fan_forum/letter_to_fans.jsp CINCINNATI -- Dear fans: Please be patient. The Cincinnati Reds explain why they traded stars Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn and ask for patience in a letter sent to fans this week. "By executing these inevitable changes now, we secured more players as part of our focus towards building a deeper, stronger inventory of young talent," the letter states. The letter was sent to fans by e-mail and posted on the team Web site. It's signed by owner Bob Castellini and general manager Walt Jocketty and says the team is building with young talent and believes the trades were important for the club's long-term success. Cincinnati traded Griffey to the Chicago White Sox on July 31 and sent Dunn to Arizona on Aug. 11. The Reds say they have signed most of their draft picks, including top choice Yonder Alonso from the University of Miami, and other promising young players to go with current young players Joey Votto, Jay Bruce and Johnny Cueto. The Reds fell 22½ games behind the Cubs in the NL Central with Tuesday night's loss in Chicago and are on their way to an eighth straight losing season. "We had high expectations for the 2008 season," the letter states. "Unfortunately, the team has not played up to our expectations and we have sustained injuries to key players within our starting lineup and rotation." The letter asks fans for "your continued trust and patience as we build the roster that will get us back on top." A few excerpts: • On trading Griffey and Dunn: "While the run production generated by these two veterans will not be quickly replaced, we chose to endure the short-term ramifications for the sake of building a strong, competitive team for 2009 and many seasons to come." • On newly signed young players: "The vast majority of our 50 draft picks were signed, culminating last week with first-rounder Yonder Alonso and a pair of talented pitchers. Our expanded scouting operations also signed Juan Duran from the Dominican Republic and Yorman Rodriguez from Venezuela, who are arguably the best amateur free agent position players from their respective countries." • On the immediate future: "As we near September, we will continue to provide valuable playing time to our young players and new acquisitions who we feel can become significant contributors at the Major League level. We ask your continued trust and patience as we build the roster that will get us back on top." The Reds' moves made sense to fan Ian Cioffi. He thought they were paying too much to Griffey for his declining production and that they should try younger players. "Obviously what we had wasn't working; might as well try something else," the electrician said during a break from work Wednesday. Willie Wilson, chatting with his friend Harold Atwater on Fountain Square downtown, said he's a lifelong Reds fan but is unhappy with the current state of the team. "You might not be able to print what I think about them," he said. Wilson said some fans expected too much from Griffey, whose Reds teams never made it to the playoffs after the 2000 trade that brought him to his hometown. "They thought he was going to be the savior, the miracle man," Wilson said. "It's not his fault he got hurt." Atwater thinks the Reds should use the salary money saved by trading Griffey and Dunn on pitchers. But that reminded Wilson of a still-irritating trade before the 1966 season that sent another slugging outfielder away in a move to add pitching. "I can take you all the way back to when the Reds traded Frank Robinson to Baltimore for Milt Pappas," Wilson said. "And then Robinson won the Triple Crown that year."

metirish Aug 20 2008 01:26 PM

] The Reds' moves made sense to fan Ian Cioffi. He thought they were paying too much to Griffey for his declining production and that they should try younger players. "Obviously what we had wasn't working; might as well try something else," the electrician said during a break from work Wednesday. Willie Wilson, chatting with his friend Harold Atwater on Fountain Square downtown, said he's a lifelong Reds fan but is unhappy with the current state of the team. "You might not be able to print what I think about them," he said. Wilson said some fans expected too much from Griffey, whose Reds teams never made it to the playoffs after the 2000 trade that brought him to his hometown. "They thought he was going to be the savior, the miracle man," Wilson said. "It's not his fault he got hurt." Atwater thinks the Reds should use the salary money saved by trading Griffey and Dunn on pitchers. But that reminded Wilson of a still-irritating trade before the 1966 season that sent another slugging outfielder away in a move to add pitching. "I can take you all the way back to when the Reds traded Frank Robinson to Baltimore for Milt Pappas," Wilson said. "And then Robinson won the Triple Crown that year." Three 'fans' or three low level employees?

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 01:27 PM

Really? I can take you back to June 15, 1977, Snotnose.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 20 2008 01:29 PM

Sounds like an effort to cover their asses for hiring Dusty Baker and keep the fans coming for the rest of the year even though its likely they'll suck. I don;t doubt they're sincere though.

metirish Aug 20 2008 01:32 PM

I would think Baker is gone after this season , Jocketty will want a better manager.

Nymr83 Aug 20 2008 02:16 PM

]The Reds say they have signed most of their draft picks, including top choice Yonder Alonso from the University of Miami, and other promising young players to go with current young players Joey Votto, Jay Bruce and Johnny Cueto. Johnny Cueto 8-12, 4.74 Edison Volquez 15-5, 2.73... nah, we don't need to mention him.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Aug 20 2008 02:18 PM

Nymr83 wrote: Johnny Cueto 8-12, 4.74 Edison Volquez 15-5, 2.73... nah, we don't need to mention him. I had the top waiver wire pick in my fantasy league early in the season. I had to choose between Cueto and Volquez. Let's just say the crystal ball was in the shop at the time.

Nymr83 Aug 20 2008 02:21 PM

i made the same mistake in an auction keeper league, either one was mine for this year and next for under $10, i spent my money on Cueto.

Gwreck Aug 20 2008 02:56 PM

Nymr83 wrote: Edison Volquez 15-5, 2.73... nah, we don't need to mention him. I considered that too, until I remembered what they traded away to get him. Hamilton: 24 win shares. Volquez: 13 win shares.

Nymr83 Aug 20 2008 03:34 PM

Volquez is 3 years younger and pitching very well despite being in a hitter's paradise. Hamilton is also in a hitter's paradise and has disgusting splits this year (home: .340/.407/.634) (away: .263/.326/.454) i don't think the Reds should regret this trade.

Nymr83 Aug 20 2008 03:38 PM

double-post, stupid slow loading server

AG/DC Aug 20 2008 05:43 PM

Well, win shares accounts for the hitting/pitching environments, right? Another factor is that pitching performance is more volatile. Still another, the other way, is the reality that recovering addicts tend to have relapses.

Kong76 Aug 20 2008 06:47 PM

ny83: stupid slow loading server<<< The server works fine ... it's the best we've ever had by far.

Nymr83 Aug 20 2008 07:48 PM

="KC"]ny83: stupid slow loading server<<< The server works fine ... it's the best we've ever had by far. it didnt have to be your server, it could very well have been verizon's on my end, nonetheless something was causing it to load slow, and it wasnt just me, someone triple-posted in another thread around the same time

Vince Coleman Firecracker Aug 21 2008 07:45 AM

="Nymr83"]someone triple-posted in another thread around the same time Yeah, that was me, although I shouldn't have hit refresh when my browser froze. Twice.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 21 2008 08:52 AM

How come I can never log out on my first try? I get some crazy debug message on my first attempt. I have to log out twice to log out once.

smg58 Aug 21 2008 11:13 AM

What the Reds really have to answer for is trading Hamilton, whom they would have had under control for five more seasons, in the offseason while keeping the two guys in their walk years. I can't imagine Volquez would have been off the table if they had offered Dunn or possibly even Griffey instead.

seawolf17 Aug 21 2008 11:19 AM

He might have been -- part of the draw for Texas was having Hamilton under their control, I'd think. Still a shrewd move by Cincinnati, though, as you didn't realistically know what you were going to get out of Hamilton this year. Yes, he was dynamite last year, but with his history, it's still a gamble.

bmfc1 Aug 21 2008 11:19 AM

smg58 wrote: What the Reds really have to answer for is trading Hamilton, whom they would have had under control for five more seasons, in the offseason while keeping the two guys in their walk years. I can't imagine Volquez would have been off the table if they had offered Dunn or possibly even Griffey instead. I hate to think that the guy who traded Hamilton, even though he got an All-Star pitcher in return, worked for the Mets. Oh, wait.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2008 11:28 AM

I was reading where there was a feeling that Hamilton didn't get along with some teammates. Not it's not a good point raised about Dunn and/or Griffey sooner...