Stickygate, 2024

[MFS62]

I'm not sure how it would work, but ,if we can do rapid testing for covid etc, surely a reliable testing kit can be manufactured? Anyway ,the Union and MLB need to figure this out , this seems unreliable

Test for what?
How do you measure "sticky"?
Either it is or it isn't (to the touch).
You don't have to know the chemical composition of the substance.
It is sticky.
The fact that is a dark substance and easily seen is another matter. There must be clear stick substances that wouldn't have raised suspicion. (looking for better ways to cheat)

Later

[Edgy MD]

That's incorrect.

A hand being (or actually seeming) sticky isn't illegal. A hand having foreign, explicitly disallowed, substances applied to it is.

The hand seeming to be sticky is (ambiguous) evidence, but it is not the violation itself, and thus the umpires are forced to make an unfortunate judgment call.

[metirish]

Test for substances like Spider tack , pine tar , that they are not allowed to use , rosin they are ,come on now

[Benjamin Grimm]

You don't have to be concerned about tests becoming outdated if the rule is that certain things are okay and everything else isn't. Itemize the good, not the bad. If it's anything that's not on the good list, it's a suspension.

[nymr83]

You don't have to be concerned about tests becoming outdated if the rule is that certain things are okay and everything else isn't. Itemize the good, not the bad. If it's anything that's not on the good list, it's a suspension.

I suspect the "allowed" list might be hard to define too - sweat, rosin, dirt, specs of peanut butter and chocolate from that between innings snickers, small amounts of hair gel from innocently running your hands through your hair.

Maybe the umpire should be equipped with an item of appropriate weight (an index card? a quarter?) and press it to the guy's hand, turn the hand over, and see if gravity or the sticky shit wins... if the latter, you are out of the game - and you can test yourself in the dugout so anyone who fails really deserves it.

[kcmets]

I demand a full investigation of Vic Carapazza, his family and all
their immediate neighbors. Probably YLD's, the whole lot of 'em.

[bmfc1]

The picture above is meaningless without comparisons to acceptable sticky hands or even his hand the last time he pitched.

The fact that it is subjective is what is most troubling here. Everything else in baseball is defined: fair or foul, safe or out, ball or strike, but this decision is in the umpire's opinion. Here, Carapazza said he’s done this a lot and knows what too much is. OK, but what’s the criteria? How does he know? It shouldn’t depend on the umpire--it should be a defined standard. The Mets will appeal but Manfred won’t have the spine to contradict the umpires so the Mets have to play short for 10 games due to an umpire’s opinion based on undefined criteria.

[Edgy MD]

The picture above is meaningless without comparisons to acceptable sticky hands or even his hand the last time he pitched.

Yeah, context, context, context.

What looks like a collection of goop could be just a discolored callus, and vice-versa.

Balls and strikes, too, are the umpire's opinion in the end, but your point stands.

Would an appeal go to Manfred's office or to an independent arbitrator?

[MFS62]

That's incorrect.

A hand being (or actually seeming) sticky isn't illegal. A hand having foreign, explicitly disallowed, substances applied to it is.

The hand seeming to be sticky is (ambiguous) evidence, but it is not the violation itself, and thus the umpires are forced to make an unfortunate judgment call.

How can a hand be (naturally) sticky without the application of a foreign substance?

Later

[MFS62]

Maybe the umpire should be equipped with an item of appropriate weight (an index card? a quarter?) and press it to the guy's hand, turn the hand over, and see if gravity or the sticky shit wins... if the latter, you are out of the game - and you can test yourself in the dugout so anyone who fails really deserves it.

Totally agree.
The inverted/ drop test is the best way to determine if the hand is sticky enough to effect the flight/ spin of the ball. And that's what his is all about, anyhow.

LAter

[Edgy MD]

That's incorrect.

A hand being (or actually seeming) sticky isn't illegal. A hand having foreign, explicitly disallowed, substances applied to it is.

The hand seeming to be sticky is (ambiguous) evidence, but it is not the violation itself, and thus the umpires are forced to make an unfortunate judgment call.

How can a hand be (naturally) sticky without the application of a foreign substance?

Later

One could have innocently made recent contact with a chocolate bar, a candy wrapper, hair gel, sexual fluids, sunscreen, eyeblack, a sugary drink, bubble gum, or all of the above.

None of these things are explicitly disallowed or necessarily indicate malicious intent.

Even more innocently, one's metabolism could theoretically turn his or her naturally occurring hand oil and/or sweat to be stickier than the mean, especially when combined with resin and/or dirt. it's just guesswork that the umps are forced to exercise.

[bmfc1]

Balls and strikes, too, are the umpire's opinion in the end, but your point stands.

Thanks... I was thinking of checked swings and the future "challenge system".

[MFS62]

Even more innocently, one's metabolism could theoretically turn his or her naturally occurring hand oil and/or sweat to be stickier than the mean, especially when combined with resin and/or dirt. it's just guesswork that the umps are forced to exercise.

If the pitcher has a natural condition that turns his sweat sticky, he is one lucky pitcher.
I can just picture it now - agents spending millions in medical research to determine how that happened and if their client pitchers can be similarly infected.
LOL!
Later

[metirish]

[Edgy MD]

Even more innocently, one's metabolism could theoretically turn his or her naturally occurring hand oil and/or sweat to be stickier than the mean, especially when combined with resin and/or dirt. it's just guesswork that the umps are forced to exercise.

If the pitcher has a natural condition that turns his sweat sticky, he is one lucky pitcher.
I can just picture it now - agents spending millions in medical research to determine how that happened and if their client pitchers can be similarly infected.
LOL!
Later

I didn't think it was laugh-out-loud funny. I only meant to indicate that, if what is sticky vs. what isn't sticky, and what is illegally sticky vs. allowably sticky, is a judgment call, it's problematic, and these aren't easy and obvious calls to make at all.

[MFS62]

Agree.
Later

[nymr83]

That's incorrect.

A hand being (or actually seeming) sticky isn't illegal. A hand having foreign, explicitly disallowed, substances applied to it is.

The hand seeming to be sticky is (ambiguous) evidence, but it is not the violation itself, and thus the umpires are forced to make an unfortunate judgment call.

How can a hand be (naturally) sticky without the application of a foreign substance?

Later

One could have innocently made recent contact with a chocolate bar, a candy wrapper, hair gel, sexual fluids, sunscreen, eyeblack, a sugary drink, bubble gum, or all of the above.

None of these things are explicitly disallowed or necessarily indicate malicious intent.

Even more innocently, one's metabolism could theoretically turn his or her naturally occurring hand oil and/or sweat to be stickier than the mean, especially when combined with resin and/or dirt. it's just guesswork that the umps are forced to exercise.

Can't believe I missed the opportunity to list cum as a hypothetical acceptable substance. Do better, Nymr.

[Edgy MD]

Ben Grimm's Pop-Tart addiction would have him banned for life.

[MFS62]

tacky or sticky
More detail on how the umps have been trained and the guidelines they use:
https://sny.tv/articles/further-reporti ... ic-fallout

Later

[kcmets]

There is basically nothing new in that story. Nothing.

[bmfc1]

There is basically nothing new in that story. Nothing.

It was as if Martino wrote it just to fulfill a quota.

[bmfc1]

It’s possible (and perhaps paranoid) that Tomas Nido “dropped a dime” on Diaz. I’ve wondered if the Dodgers did the same with Scherzer.

[SteveCohenStan]

What do we think Vic Carapazza's wager was? Probably something involving Diaz not getting a save would seem the most likely, but maybe it was some long parlay.

[Edgy MD]

It’s possible (and perhaps paranoid) that Tomas Nido “dropped a dime” on Diaz. I’ve wondered if the Dodgers did the same with Scherzer.

It's speculative, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it paranoid. I kinda crossed my mind as well.

As David Wright said about Cliff Floyd, Tomás is a Cub now.

[Frayed Knot]

As mentioned by the TV crew last night, the umps check incoming closers before the inning starts because the game is generally on the line.
Bottom line is they didn't, and are not going to, check him based on the insistence of the opposing backup catcher or his team.