Golden At-Bat "buzz'

[Frayed Knot]

Kay's rant and the idea that gimmicky rule changes are going to draw in young viewers in droves reeks of hopeful speculation being treated as fact.
It reminds me somewhat of when some christian churches in the 1970's decided that updating the language in their prayer books and such was the key to drawing in the younger crowd only to find out that it did nothing of the sort and instead turned off some of those who were already attending and liked the services just as they were.

[ashie62]

Maybe a well placed the golden shower can extinguish the golden AB

Society seems to be totally in on short form reels and videos and jiggy rule changes like this one appeal to the limited attention span of today's youth in much the same way

[batmagadanleadoff]

Kay's rant and the idea that gimmicky rule changes are going to draw in young viewers in droves reeks of hopeful speculation being treated as fact.
It reminds me somewhat of when some christian churches in the 1970's decided that updating the language in their prayer books and such was the key to drawing in the younger crowd only to find out that it did nothing of the sort and instead turned off some of those who were already attending and liked the services just as they were.

What would likely happen if this rule is adopted, I would guess, is not much, fan-wise, other than griping about or applauding the new rule. The new rule will neither drive away old and established fans nor will it bring in new fans all on its own. Existing fans aren't going away no matter what they say. They're addicted to baseball the same way cigarette smokers are addicted to nicotine. And the owners know that better than the fans do.

Even without any rule changes, the game is already drastically different than what it was 20, 25 years ago. Nothing lasts forever. If youse don't like this rule, maybe youse'd like a basketball rule where any player that takes a shot can't take another shot for two minutes.

The argument that the rule is bad simply because it was never done that way before is an extremely weak argument.

[metirish]

Kay's rant and the idea that gimmicky rule changes are going to draw in young viewers in droves reeks of hopeful speculation being treated as fact.
It reminds me somewhat of when some christian churches in the 1970's decided that updating the language in their prayer books and such was the key to drawing in the younger crowd only to find out that it did nothing of the sort and instead turned off some of those who were already attending and liked the services just as they were.

Key saying "to jump a guy for trying to make a legitimate change " what ? Legitimate?

[CitiFieldPornRoom]

What would likely happen if this rule is adopted, I would guess, is not much, fan-wise, other than griping about or applauding the new rule. The new rule will neither drive away old and established fans nor will it bring in new fans all on its own. Existing fans aren't going away no matter what they say. They're addicted to baseball the same way cigarette smokers are addicted to nicotine. And the owners know that better than the fans do.

Even without any rule changes, the game is already drastically different than what it was 20, 25 years ago. Nothing lasts forever. If youse don't like this rule, maybe youse'd like a basketball rule where any player that takes a shot can't take another shot for two minutes.

The argument that the rule is bad simply because it was never done that way before is an extremely weak argument.

That Kay likes it is a pretty convincing argument that it's bad.

Basketball doesn't matter. Baseball shouldn't be making rules based on how another sport operates.


There's making changes to the game to adjust for changing times, ability, etc. That's the DH. Pitching got specialized, so they separated out that aspect of it. But fundamentally the game is the same. 9 batters, locked into a batting order. 9 fielders, can 'roughly' play anywhere to try to get the batters out. offense vs defense. It's a team game with individual pitcher-batter faceoff at the crux of it. Sort of like Family Feud.

This is also why the shift rules are bad, but for opposite reasons. That takes away defensive strategy and freedoms and streamlines the game. That's boring. Golden AB stuff is needless complexity and messes with the team game dynamic. And not in a good way. The entire history of the modern game has dealt with complex strategies of lineup management, bullpen management, etc. You're basically taking that agency out of the defensive team's hands. It's for spectacle, not for game, and that's a bad reason to make changes to the game.

If you want to have a more spectacle-based game, go for it, but why destroy the good game you already have? Do something like Rugby Tens and make a separate version of the game. Or keep it to the WBC? You've already got this tournament, that can be pretty fun. Introduce the rule there. Have it more often even, or variants of it. Make a Winter Ball league or takeover the Australian league or something, and have the variant there.

Quick interjection to say: GAMBLING. This ties into the "we gotta win the 22 year old bro eyeballs" take of Kay and other idiots that don't get it. The Gambling opportunities here are not to be ignored. Especially the teeth-gnashing hot-take screamfests that will draw views/clicks/etc to/with scum like barstool when a manager does or does not use this rule the way they want. Image the odds swing if you think like Ohtani is going to hit for the backup catcher. Or you bet on the team down 2 thinking your star is going to hit for that struggling OFer you hate, but the manager doesn't do that? btw, they're re-upping Stephen A Smith at ESPN, giving him all the money from the actual talented people they fired.

to sum up. It's dumb and bad, Manfred's incentives are terrible and he hates baseball. Also it's rarely going to be used for the fabled Ohtani-Trout matchup to end the game. You're more likely to deploy your slugger in a 5th inning 2 on, 2 out situation with your light-hitting catcher up. And then the opposing manager will bring in a reliever.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Defensive teams get a special "Golden Out" where they can designate any inning to complete with 2 outs and not 3.

Intentional walks are outlawed

[stevejrogers]

Defensive teams get a special "Golden Out" where they can designate any inning to complete with 2 outs and not 3.

Intentional walks are outlawed

Reminds me that the great Rollie Fingers fake out in the World Series on Johnny Bench, while probably was one of the very few times a legit pitch was hurled on the 4th ball, is something that can never happen again.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

The Golden Manager rule allows each manager to change the outcome of any one decision in the game (pitching change, lineup construction, whatever) and litigate the results afterward

[smg58]

Can we find people to run the game of baseball who don't actually hate the game of baseball?

[Centerfield]

Personally, I love the idea of adding the Golden At-Bat to make it more like basketball.

When basketball had to introduce a mid-season tournament to generate interest in its games.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I thought of twenty changes that have come to the game since I started watching in 1971, including two changes that have since been rescinded and the one that is being proposed here. I ranked them from best to worst. I'm not including changes to free agency, drafts, compensation, arbitration, trade deadlines, waiver rules, qualifying offers, injured list, etc. I limited it to things that more directly affect what happens during the game and how the postseason field is determined.

The first section are things that I feel mostly positive about. The middle section is where I'm more or less neutral. And the bottom section are things that I feel mostly (or entirely) negative out.

Please feel free to chime in with your own rankings!


Pitch Clock
Expansion of Wild Card Round from Best-of-One to Best-of-Three
26-man roster
Expansion of LCS from Best-of-Five to Best-of-Seven
Three-batter minimum
Instant Replay
Shift ban

Limit on mound visits
Larger bases
Sticky-finger checks

Interleague play
{DEFUNCT: All-Star Game determines World Series home-field advantage}
{DEFUNCT: Optional 24-man roster}
Limit on pickoff attempts
Introduction of Wild Card, change from four divisions to six
Introduction of Second Wild Card
Introduction of Third Wild Card
Designated Hitter
Ghost Runner
Golden At-bat

[whippoorwill]

What if the golden batter is due up next after the golden at bat and he is on base?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Golden pinch runner?

[whippoorwill]

Lol

[metirish]

It's his smugness that gets me

[Centerfield]

My thoughts.

Rules I Like:
*Interleague Play. Though I would limit it more than it is now.
*Instant Replay. Though I would tweak this to get rid of the reversal if you momentarily break contact with the bag for a period of time imperceptible to the naked eye. I think it can be done.
*Limit on pickoff attempts
*Pitch Clock. I thought I'd hate this, but I have to admit this has worked well. Though I think you can give teams a warning and accomplish much of the same without having it affect the game. I also don't mind games being a bit longer.
*Limit on mound visits.

Rules I Don't Like:
*Introduction of Third Wild Card
*Designated Hitter in the NL
*Ghost Runner. I might hate this rule less if it were instituted in the 11th inning or later.

Rule I Despise And I Can't Even Believe Is Being Considered and Makes Me Want to Murder the Commissioner
*Golden At-bat


Neutral on the rest.

[MFS62]

That's how I would classify them, and would add two rule changes that I would reverse:
1) the option rule. I would go back to the old rule - three options, period. Not three option years in which a player can be yo-yo-ed multiple times.
I realize the game has changed ,so I would accommodate the need for extra pitchers by keeping the current 26 man major league roster limit. And, because teams need a chance to evaluate minor league talent, I would
2) go back to the 40 man roster limit after September 1.

I think we can all agree as to where Manfred can stick his golden bat.

Later

[Edgy MD]

What if the golden batter is due up next after the golden at bat and he is on base?

I imagine the player he hit for returns to run the bases.

I really didn't want to write that lest it make this atrocity more real.

[Edgy MD]

Rule I Despise And I Can't Even Believe Is Being Considered and Makes Me Want to Murder the Commissioner
*Golden At-bat

Under the new rules, you would be allowed to legally do this at the strategic time of your choosing. But you would only get one try so you had better make it count. It would be your Golden Homicide Attempt.

[Centerfield]

Michael Kay, who complained that there should be a Golden AB type of rule because the Yankees had two good hitters, of course supported Manfred when the news broke, and has now backtracked.

The rule is so absolutely beyond stupid.

*Would the hitter being replaced lose his AB? Or would he then get to bat after the golden batter? If you did that, how the fuck would you fix your scorecard?
*What if you pulled a batter off the bench to be the Golden AB. Is he now burned? Or can you still PH with him later on?
*If your Golden Batter reaches, can you pinch run for him? Is he a golden runner? Is your golden runner burned? Or can he re-enter the game?
*If your Golden Batter is on base, who pinch runs for him when he comes to bat? Can you pick anyone to run for him? Or is it the last batted out? Is that runner now burned?
*Can you use your Golden AB to break up a perfect game/no hitter in the 9th? Or does that violate the unwritten rules?
*Can you use a player who has been subbed out as your Golden Batter?
*What if your Golden Batter gets hurt mid AB? Can you sub for him? What would stop a team from sending a HR hitter to take the first two swings, feign an injury, then replace him with a great 2 strike hitter?
*Can you negotiate in your contract that you get to be the Golden Batter? (and that way ensuring more ABs)
*Do hitting records get an asterisk if a player gets 150 extra ABs in a season?
*You announce your intent to use your Golden AB. The other team makes a pitching change. Can you pinch hit for your Golden Batter?
*WHAT IF YOUR GOLDEN HITTER IS THE GHOST RUNNER ON SECOND

[Frayed Knot]

Michael Kay, who complained that there should be a Golden AB type of rule because the Yankees had two good hitters, of course supported Manfred when the news broke, and has now backtracked.

I'll start by defending Kay a bit:
- in his initial comments he said that he did not support the Golden AB rule, but was merely upset at how viciously the fans reacted to the idea

And now I'll go the other way:
- by claiming that he was only saying that fans demonized Manfred for trying to suggest changes that could potentially create more excitement and eyeballs in/on the game he took the route taken by so many anti-baseball guys, namely by labeling the typical baseball fan as one stuck in the 19th century who reflexively hates anything new and are therefore part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
No Michael, we weren't criticizing Manfred for suggesting changes, we were criticizing THIS suggested change because it strikes at the very heart of what has always been sacred in baseball, the structure of a batting order and the idea that it's not a free substitution game. And because it's incredibly stupid.
Also, while we're at it, because we all saw how dishonestly the 'ghost runner' rule, another rule which struck at the integrity of the game, was implemented: 'Oh, it's just for the Covid year' ... 'well, and we'll use it for this next year too because travel plans are still problematic' ... 'and for this next one as well since spring training was late in getting started' ... 'oh and, btw, it's now permanent because it's been around for three seasons and fans tell us how much they love it!'

[Centerfield]

Also his entire premise that baseball is in trouble. Or that they're losing the younger audience. Baseball revenue is higher than ever. And while they may be losing a percentage of market share to other sports, that's inevitable as there are tons of other sports. There are still more people watching baseball than ever before, and ticket revenue is still high. Any claims that ticket sales are down have to be measured against the clubs' election to decrease seating and raise prices.

[metirish]

Right, this years play-offs had some of the best numbers in years

[Frayed Knot]

Right, this years play-offs had some of the best numbers in years

And made a hero out of Tommy Edman.
But how many times would he have been 'Golden AB'd' out of an AB?

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

I like the limits on throws to first. I suspect about 85 percent of those were half-hearted lobs.

I thought I'd hate the pitch clock but have to agree it's been an improvement. Instant replay, too. (Well, replay.)