The Crane Pool Forum

Diaz tossed over sticky fingers.

The radio booth could see discoloration on his skin where the substance supposedly was.

Unless the rules have changed, this is an automatic 10-day vacation for Diaz.

Mets lose the roster spot.

Mets are seemingly already giving up a roster spot for the time being by sitting Marte today while they check out his knee.

Injured and slumping guys (looking at McNeil) are that much harder to carry.

Hartwig just got knee surgery.

Reid-Foley just hit the IL

Available relievers on the 40 include the not-yet-seen Ty Adcock, Cole Sulser, and Josh Walker, along with starters José Butto, Joey Lucchesi, and Christian Scott.

BUT ... it's going to be awfully hard to add somebody — optioning Stewart would be their best among bad options.

Initially, it really feels like a crisis of confidence for the guy.

Ms. Edgy concurs!

Not just a bad pitcher, but a cheater too? Can this guy get any worse?

No need to be silly. He’s not a bad pitcher and unless you missed 2019, yes, he could be a *lot* worse.

Damn , whatever this is Cone seemed convinced it was rosin ,sweat etc...

Diaz needs to learn how to pitch effectively without tack

He certainly wasn't discrete about it

A) Where did that photo come from?

B) How did we get such a high-res shot of his hook?

C) is the substance really applied so liberally so as to create a web between his thumb and index finger? Is that really what I'm seeing?

For what it's worth, he's pretty composed in his denials.

Shouldn't they take a sample and test it before suspending anyone?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:45 am Shouldn't they take a sample and test it before suspending anyone?

This is a great point , kick him from the game , but then test the substance

I would agree, but I'm also unsure how that would work. Do you have a chemist and a lab at the park? Do you have an MLB official keep him under surveillance until a chemist can be procured and take a sample of the surface of his hand?

Do you take non-chemist officials and train them up to take samples on the spot? I just don't know.

Why is it necessary to have immediate in-stadium, on-the-spot results from sticky substance testing? Law enforcement personnel that gather homicide crime scene evidence for DNA testing often have to wait days if not weeks for results. What's the urgency in a baseball game?

I'm not sure exactly how true that is, but the general gist of it is why I'm wondering how that would work.

Why it's "necessary" is that his professional penalty, which has a very large financial impact — on the player, the team, the city, the gambling interests — is based on subjectively interpreted, inexpert, circumstantial evidence, and will be apparently assessed without a deeper more meaningful dive into the evidence, despite it being right there on his hand waiting for examination.

But, of course, it's not "necessary," for this is but a game, money be damned.

I'm not sure how it would work, but ,if we can do rapid testing for covid etc, surely a reliable testing kit can be manufactured? Anyway ,the Union and MLB need to figure this out , this seems unreliable

They should have some kind of "hand blotter" that would take a sample that could be sent to a lab somewhere. Just keep a supply of hand blotters at each park.

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:29 am Why it's "necessary" is that his professional penalty, which has a very large financial impact — on the player, the team, the city, the gambling interests — is based on subjectively interpreted, inexpert, circumstantial evidence, and will be apparently assessed without a deeper more meaningful dive into the evidence, despite it being right there on his hand waiting for examination.

But, of course, it's not "necessary," for this is but a game, money be damned.

That has nothing to do with my post. I simply asked why, if MLB decided to forensically test the substance, would it be, as you clearly wished for it to be, necessary to have immediate testing results?

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:55 am

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:29 am Why it's "necessary" is that his professional penalty, which has a very large financial impact — on the player, the team, the city, the gambling interests — is based on subjectively interpreted, inexpert, circumstantial evidence, and will be apparently assessed without a deeper more meaningful dive into the evidence, despite it being right there on his hand waiting for examination.

But, of course, it's not "necessary," for this is but a game, money be damned.

That has nothing to do with my post. I simply asked why, if MLB decided to forensically test the substance, would it be, as you clearly wished for it to be, necessary to have immediate testing results?

Any suspension could be delayed pending testing results. I'm guessing that it would be a lot quicker to test the sticky substance than to develop a DNA profile from blood or hair or fingerprint sweat.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:46 am They should have some kind of "hand blotter" that would take a sample that could be sent to a lab somewhere. Just keep a supply of hand blotters at each park.

Yes. The suspension, if any would be delayed pending testing. (See above post).

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:55 am

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:29 am Why it's "necessary" is that his professional penalty, which has a very large financial impact — on the player, the team, the city, the gambling interests — is based on subjectively interpreted, inexpert, circumstantial evidence, and will be apparently assessed without a deeper more meaningful dive into the evidence, despite it being right there on his hand waiting for examination.

But, of course, it's not "necessary," for this is but a game, money be damned.

That has nothing to do with my post. I simply asked why, if MLB decided to forensically test the substance, would it be, as you clearly wished for it to be, necessary to have immediate testing results?

Yes, it does have to with your post, as it is an answer to your post.

No, I don't clearly wish it to be, as I indeed expressed ambivalence, in that post, and two immediately proceeding, suggest that, yes, as a fan, I want clarity, but as a practical matter, have difficulty conceiving the resources that would have to be dedicated to such a matter.

metirish wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:45 am I'm not sure how it would work, but ,if we can do rapid testing for covid etc, surely a reliable testing kit can be manufactured? Anyway ,the Union and MLB need to figure this out , this seems unreliable

Yes. This is all fodder for a future CBA agreement, if at all.

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:01 am

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:55 am

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:29 am Why it's "necessary" is that his professional penalty, which has a very large financial impact — on the player, the team, the city, the gambling interests — is based on subjectively interpreted, inexpert, circumstantial evidence, and will be apparently assessed without a deeper more meaningful dive into the evidence, despite it being right there on his hand waiting for examination.

But, of course, it's not "necessary," for this is but a game, money be damned.

That has nothing to do with my post. I simply asked why, if MLB decided to forensically test the substance, would it be, as you clearly wished for it to be, necessary to have immediate testing results?

Yes, it does have to with your post, as it is an answer to your post.

No, I don't clearly wish it to be, as I indeed expressed ambivalence, in that post, and two immediately proceeding, suggest that, yes, as a fan, I want clarity, but as a practical matter, have difficulty conceiving the resources that would have to be dedicated to such a matter.

It's an answer to my post, but not a very good one as you make points that aren't responsive to anything I wrote. Reads more like goalpost moving to me. Whatever.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:02 am

metirish wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:45 am I'm not sure how it would work, but ,if we can do rapid testing for covid etc, surely a reliable testing kit can be manufactured? Anyway ,the Union and MLB need to figure this out , this seems unreliable

Yes. This is all fodder for a future CBA agreement, if at all.

One problem with codifying sticky substance testing in a CBA is the worry that newer sticky substances will then be developed that can fool the testing kits. MLB would then be stuck with a testing procedure that has been rendered useless. Letting umpires make judgment calls gives the league more flexibility to enforce their sticky substance rules in an efficient manner.

Saying it has nothing to do with your post and saying it's a bad answer to your post, are two very different things.

I, again, don't know why you're looking to fight over a matter upon which we are in apparent agreement.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:05 amReads more like goalpost moving to me. Whatever.

No, it doesn't. I have neither moved goalposts nor even set them in the first place. Please, please read what I actually write before getting angry with me.