The Crane Pool Forum

Yeah, didn't think so....

What's the beef with him today?
- going to Butto, the guy we want to put into the rotation?
- that he went to Diaz too early, too late, or that he went to him at all?

I do know he would have been a lot smarter today if the Mets had more than one hit (Viento's HR) after the 4th inning.

I have no problem with the bullpen management. The whole point of Butto in the bullpen is to give you 2 inning outings.

San Diego is a very good team and is (significantly?) better than the Mets on an overall raw talent level. The better team usually wins, and a 2-2 record against them in San Diego is not a bad showing.

The series losses to Anaheim and Oakland, splitting with Miami, getting swept by Seattle…those are the unacceptable outcomes.

The entire month of May was unacceptable too.
Are we proposing a solution to this?

I spelled his name wrong. I'm an ass, at times....

Gwreck wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:45 pm I have no problem with the bullpen management. The whole point of Butto in the bullpen is to give you 2 inning outings.

San Diego is a very good team and is (significantly?) better than the Mets on an overall raw talent level. The better team usually wins, and a 2-2 record against them in San Diego is not a bad showing.

The series losses to Anaheim and Oakland, splitting with Miami, getting swept by Seattle…those are the unacceptable outcomes.

This, 100%. There have been a lot of winnable games left on the table. In some ways though,with inconsistent hitting, inconsistent starters, a mediocre-to-bad bullpen, and effectively no Senga for the entire season, it's surprising they're even in the hunt.

Frayed Knot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 8:35 pm The entire month of May was unacceptable too.
Are we proposing a solution to this?

The solution is and was a talent upgrade. Vientos for Baty has obviously had a huge impact. I wanted a bigger talent upgrade at the deadline; Stearns didn’t want to go that route.

And yet this is a thread about the field manager.

Well, my point was that I don’t really see a lot of blame for the field manager here.

Gwreck wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:15 pm Well, my point was that I don’t really see a lot of blame for the field manager here.

Me either, but I was trying to figure out where this thread was going.
I mean, are we jumping on the manager because we lost today via a walk-off in a week where we twice won by walk-offs?
For losing "winnable games" like when we got out-scored 22-1 in a series vs Seattle?
Or for going 1-for-106 w/RiSP (or something like it) seemingly every week?

Maybe the Mets just need a better floor-setter.

Was today's game one of the games they set the floor to win? Does anybody know? Did anybody ask?

They can get swept by the DBacks and still make the playoffs. Or sweep the DBacks and still not make the playoffs.

They only need to beat one of the teams ahead of them and they're just two and a half games behind the last team presently in the money.

Of course they're fucking flawed. And you don't have to blow out your brains trying to analyze whether they're flawed or not. They have the seventh best record in a 15 team league. Isn't that enough to tell you whatever you need to know about how flawed they are? Sounds pretty fucking flawed to me.

But in this day and age, the eighth best team in the league is a contender. And flawed teams, even badly flawed teams, now have a shot at winning the World Series.

I've got more nits to pick with Eric Chavez I think, but I haven't been enamored with Mendoza or Med's Noza (Carlos when he wears a mustache disguise with a big fake nose)


By nature we don't know a lot about the specifics, but my impression of the manager is one of someone stumbling along. It's his first year, there's some sense that some of the stumbles are things he'll learn from. Are the Mets fine with this? Is this an example of how this was always a punt year so they were always okay with potentially losing games so the new guy can take his lumps? Why did not want Chavez last year but did this year? Why is Hefner still here? It's hard to believe there's a well thought out long term plan in place.

My beef is with Manfred and his stupid “everyone and their mother makes the playoffs format”.

The Mets are a mediocre team. Usually by now they’d be out of it and we’d be significantly less frustrated. Resigned to wait for next year. But definitely less frustrated.

I’ve asked myself why I’m so irritated watching games this year. I think it’s the aggravation of rooting for such a flawed team with a playoff spot on the line.

Well, back to Mednoza, he's probably done the best he could do with the tools at hand. I'm not always enamored with his handling of the bullpen, but there are a lot of bad options there.

I did find it interesting that Gary and Ron yesterday referred to him as 'Mendy'. Sounds like they're already in the fan club.

I haven't heard anyone complain about Mendoza in some time, like Mayish

Losses like yesterday happen to all teams. The Mets had ample opportunity to score several more runs in the early innings but didn't and Butto got lit up

It's not talked about but Luisangel Acuna and Drew Gilbert could have been the guys to help the Mets make this this push but Acuna has not mastered AAA and Gilbert has been hurt almost all season

With that, Stearns managed the deadline true to his conservative look forward plan for an all in 2025 team

That look forward plan may not jive with the hopes of Mets fans, including myself, who are all in on the push for a seemingly mercurial playoff spot

Plenty of season left

I don't mind the format. I would much rather have the Mets be in the playoff hunt than not.

Yesterday was a gut punch, especially when Quintana pitched so well. But a split with the Padres isn't a horrible thing. If they can manage to take two of three from the Diamondbacks and sweep the White Sox, it will all be good.

Butto has been solid, so I can't fault Mendoza for leaving him out there. The walk -- and leaving the bases loaded earlier in the game -- is what did them in.

It seems we have been complaining about bullpen management for years , I rarely even think about Mendoza, not much of a personality

Yah I'm neutral on the skipper. It's not his fault that Mets runners die on 2nd and 3rd like overripe fruit on the vine

Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:37 am I did find it interesting that Gary and Ron yesterday referred to him as 'Mendy'. Sounds like they're already in the fan club.

It's what the players call him so G & R are likely picking it up from them.
Probably would be better if they sounded a little more detached, but it's more or less harmless.

metirish wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:08 am It seems we have been complaining about bullpen management for years

'Bad bullpen management' is the low hanging fruit of the blame game and it usually means one of two things:
* I'm pissed off because we lost a game late and I'm looking for someone to take it out on
* he brought in someone I don't like ... and since every bullpen on every team ever has at least three guys in it who
someone has chosen as a designated whipping boy then it's a handy and oft-used go-to

Yesterday two of the guys who shouldn't be on anyone's shit list and were both well rested combined to cough up
three runs and two HRs while retiring just two of the last six batters they faced.
If that's the manager's fault then so is the weather.

I like Mendoza now than I did earlier in the season. Early in the season, he seemed like a wimp who didn't know what he was doing.

I like that he lets his starters decide what they want and stay in every once in a while, instead of doing what the analytics tards would want and have them be pulled at 100 pitches even if they were throwing a perfect game.

Cowtipper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:13 am I like Mendoza now than I did earlier in the season. Early in the season, he seemed like a wimp who didn't know what he was doing.

I like that he lets his starters decide what they want and stay in every once in a while, instead of doing what the analytics tards would want and have them be pulled at 100 pitches even if they were throwing a perfect game.

Mets pitchers are 20% worse when they face batters the third time through.

Frayed Knot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:34 am

metirish wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:08 am It seems we have been complaining about bullpen management for years

'Bad bullpen management' is the low hanging fruit of the blame game and it usually means one of two things:
* I'm pissed off because we lost a game late and I'm looking for someone to take it out on
* he brought in someone I don't like ... and since every bullpen on every team ever has at least three guys in it who
someone has chosen as a designated whipping boy then it's a handy and oft-used go-to

Yesterday two of the guys who shouldn't be on anyone's shit list and were both well rested combined to cough up
three runs and two HRs while retiring just two of the last six batters they faced.
If that's the manager's fault then so is the weather.

Yeah I'm with FK on this. Brazoban in high leverage situations is one thing. Butto and Diaz are the best we got, and they just didn't get it done. Kudos to the Padres who have been doing this for a few weeks now.

It sucks. But again, I feel like we are rooting for a team that, in the past, would not be in a playoff hunt.

TheNextMetsManager wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:41 am

Cowtipper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:13 am I like Mendoza now than I did earlier in the season. Early in the season, he seemed like a wimp who didn't know what he was doing.

I like that he lets his starters decide what they want and stay in every once in a while, instead of doing what the analytics tards would want and have them be pulled at 100 pitches even if they were throwing a perfect game.

Mets pitchers are 20% worse when they face batters the third time through.

Then maybe it's time the Mets start letting pitchers face batters the third time through so they can get better at facing batters the third time through.

Cowtipper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:44 am

TheNextMetsManager wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:41 am

Cowtipper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:13 am I like Mendoza now than I did earlier in the season. Early in the season, he seemed like a wimp who didn't know what he was doing.

I like that he lets his starters decide what they want and stay in every once in a while, instead of doing what the analytics tards would want and have them be pulled at 100 pitches even if they were throwing a perfect game.

Mets pitchers are 20% worse when they face batters the third time through.

Then maybe it's time the Mets start letting pitchers face batters the third time through so they can get better at facing batters the third time through.

They're not good enough. That's kind of the whole thing. It's a skill issue, not a reps issue.

That's where the manager stuff comes in. Yes, some pitchers have enough pitches and skill to minimize the 3rd time through penalty. Sometimes it's simply because they've been going 90 pitches for so long that the third time coincides with fatigue and the falter, but often it's more that they falter and that creates the fatigue. Managing that, and bringing in the relievers in the right spot, is a big part of it.

And it's not like the Mets staff is a picture of health. Luis Severino might have been talented enough 7 years ago, but he's a different guy now. He's literally striking out 10% less batters. He's started throwing a sinker almost 30% of time time and cut his slider/fastball usage. He's thrown 2331 pitches this year, up from 1636 last year. 1810 in 2020, and then 525 total from 2019-2021. That's already a 50% increase in workload and it's only August.

He's done two of my pet peeves - pulling pitchers too early and "resting" a player who has had a few hot games in a row. Other managers do that lately. (new numbers driven style?)
But overall, he's done an ok job with a bench and bullpen that early in the year looked like they were built by Boeing.

Later