The Crane Pool Forum

AM baseball returns to America's capital, as the Mets conclude the first of two rare four-game sets this week, wrapping up with the Nats as José Quintana takes on Jake "Don't Call Him Dr. J" Irvin.

Come for the party! Stay for the really, really stupid hat designs!

Got a new #3 hitter.

#	Player	Pos.	#	Player	Pos.
1	Francisco Lindor (S)	ss	1	CJ Abrams (L)	ss
2	Brandon Nimmo (L)	lf	2	Lane Thomas (R)	rf
3	Francisco Álvarez (R)	c	3	Harold Ramírez (L)	dh
4	Pete Alonso (R)	1b	4	Joey Meneses (L)	1b
5	DJ Stewart (L)	dh	5	James Wood (S)	lf
6	Mark Vientos (R)	3b	6	Nick Senzel (L)	eb
7	Ben Gamel (L)	rf	7	Riley Adams (R)	c
8	Tyrone Taylor (R)	cf	8	Ildemaro Vargas (S)	2b
9	Jeff McNeil (L)	2b	9	Jacob Young (R)	cf
	Pitcher			Pitcher
	José Quintana (L)	sp		Jake Irvin (R)	sp

Bader still out. Wonder if this is a little worse than they're letting on.

Alvarez batting thind. Interesting.

It's like Sunday soccer, only better!

Keep winning and maybe turn Baty in for a decent reliever. Lord knows they could use the help there

I love morning EPL soccer but this is indeed better

LGM

This is a difficult start time for players who were drinking last night

This game is flying by.

Sniffle-sniffle through four.

Whole lotta nuthin' goin' on...

Dr. Jake is kind of bringing it effortlessly out there, isn't he?

Seems like the two teams want to go to the clown car rules early in this one.

Sniffle-sniffle through seven.

Whole lotta nuthin' goin' on...

(You early bbqr's and traveling folks with lives are missing a
helluva IGT. Helluva, I tell ya)

Hey, Mets and Nats, a lot of people paid to watch this game.

And on that note, Snake Irvin strikes out Tyrone Taytay to retire his 17th straight Met.

And there you go.

Pull your pitcher when he's cruising, watch the next guy take a bruising.

Yeah, smelled that coming.

Well, that's that.

How long was that? About 57 minutes?

Irvin 5.0
Winker 4.0
Law 1.0

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:04 pmHow long was that? About 57 minutes?

First pitch:11:05 AM.
Time:1:58.

Mets cannot start to give back ground or the trade birds will be signing

Bullpen, bullpen, bullpen. If Stearns is serious, that has to be addressed. Right now, nobody has a defined role. And when Diaz comes back I'm not sure I trust him with clean hands.

I'm of a different mind. There's never enough bullpen. There never will be enough bullpen. There certainly isn't enough bullpen to help a team that scores zero runs.

You stretch your bullpen not necessarily by thinking there's another guy just out of reach who can save you, but buy letting guys pitching well continue to pitch.

A team used to be able to get a division title with seven or eight good pitchers, get through the playoffs with six or seven, and then only trust five guys in game situations in the World Series. The rest were just guys, taking up a roster spot, pitching low-risk situations, throwing strikes, and taking lumps.

Now we have fallen into the notion that we think we need a dozen trustworthy guys. We don't, though.

And there's nothing magic about 100 pitches. If we all had six fingers on each hand, we'd be letting starting pitchers throw 144 pitches, as long as they were effective, before pulling them. We'd need even smaller bullpens.

Let guys who are effective keep pitching, score a few runs when you can, and run up the opposition pitch counts, and then you don't have to worry about getting more relievers.

But there isn't enough pitching in the world to win your team is shut out. And there isn't enough room on the roster to keep enough pitching around to keep the game 0–0 forever.

I general, I agree with you regarding too many arms in the bullpen. Unfortunately, the game has changed and managers will pull pitchers who are cruising threw the opposition because of pitch counts or fear of wearing the starter out. Managers don't hesitate to pull pitchers in the midst of throwing a shut out or even a no hitter. It seems that 5 or 6 innings is all most managers seem to be looking for from their starting pitching. Then they try to throw 4-5 more pitchers out there to close the final 3-4 innings in hopes that every single pitcher you send to the mound is "on" that day.

Unfortunately, the days of sending Seaver, Gibson, Carlton, Marichal, Maddux, Ryan, Palmer, Johnson, or Ford (etc.) to the mound and going with your best for as long as you could are long gone. It is a change that has led to so many of the late inning collapses we so often see. I believe all the coddling, pitch counts, and six man rotations are a misguided attempt to protect pitchers arms from injury by not overworking them. It doesn't appear to be working. I don't have any statistics regarding injury rates to pitchers now versus 20, 30, or even 50 years ago, but it sure seems that the pitchers breakdown and are out for injury more now than in the past.

I think the pitchers are throwing far too much at too young an age in order to get the college scholarships or get drafted. Many of them are already damaged goods by the time they get into the minor league systems. The number of young players high schoolers and even mid-teens that are undergoing Tommy John surgery has been rising steadily for the past 20-30 years. If they want to protect arms, they need to start doing so at much younger ages.

... and if your starters could throw 300 or 400 innings a season, you wouldn't need any relievers. But the game evolved.

And pitchers are getting hurt because they're throwing harder and because they're going all out on every at bat, not because they're being coddled. Pitching has gotten harder, not easier.

Do keep in mind as we continue to blame the bullpen for virtually each and every loss, NYM bats over the last 13 innings managed to amass a grand total of one single (3rd inning today) and two BBs (8th inning Wed, 2nd inning today). In the other ten innings they were retired 1-2-3.



[innings 6 thru 9 Wed night and all 9 today]

Frayed Knot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 6:50 pm Do keep in mind as we continue to blame the bullpen for virtually each and every loss, NYM bats over the last 13 innings managed to amass a grand total of one single (3rd inning today) and two BBs (8th inning Wed, 2nd inning today). In the other ten innings they were retired 1-2-3.



[innings 6 thru 9 Wed night and all 9 today]

This! The Mets are on a tremendous offensive run, about as impressive a tear as any in franchise history. The entire lineup, top to bottom, is hitting. But the offense has come to a grind over the last game and a half.

I understand that the game has evolved, I'm just not sure that it has evolved for the better. I don't think the Ryans, Gibsons, Carltons, Johnsons and Seavers were coasting against many batters. They may not have thrown as hard as most pitchers today, but I doubt they were holding much back. They just didn't give up the ball or their turn in the rotation every time the felt a twinge. Some of the limited use of pitchers is also a factor of the amount the teams have invested in the pitchers, particularly starters.

If one looks at the statistics for Tommy John surgeries now being done on teenagers due to overuse, while chasing their dreams, I believe the root of the issue is apparent, at least to me. I know that most youth leagues limit the number of innings a pitching can throw, but most talented kids now play year round, not just in the summer. Then you add the fact that the most talented youngsters often play overlapping leagues so they throw the maximum inning in not just one league, but often in two or three competing leagues. They are often damaging their arms before they are ever drafted.