IGT Election 11/5/24 Harris vs Trump

[ashie62]

but no... i also do think that a HUGE part of the blame falls on biden and democrats in general, for failing to set kamala up to succeed from the get go in 2020. they ran the country like they didn't have to also win '24, and it showed. kamala should've been a front and center part of the administration as the heir apparent after a single-term-from-the-start biden.

This, too. I'd thought that Biden would resign two years and a day into his term, to give Kamala a head start and to keep her eligible for two full terms. He probably should have done that.

Ya think?

[ashie62]

The economic suffering of Americans was not addressed by Harris in any real way

[kcmets]

The economic suffering of Americans was not addressed by Harris in any real way

Oh Jesus Fucking Christ just shut up! Please. Not today. I beg you.

[Chad ochoseis]

Centre County PA turning red is an eye opener

It's no consolation at all, but she ultimately did win Centre County by about 2000 votes.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ident.html

[Centerfield]

I really do wonder what is next for us now.

Trump, thank god, is equal parts dickhead and lazy. So although I do think he'll start with the deportation efforts, I'm hoping his laziness will kick in and maybe it won't be as bad as I'm fearing right now. On the other hand, he might just handoff to ghouls like Steven Miller, who is actually just pure evil, in which case anyone that arrived recently, legal or not, should start packing their bags.

Tax breaks for the rich. Israel gets the green light to do whatever they want. Border security gets ramped up. Pardons for J6. Retribution against everyone he feels wronged him in some way. Lining the pockets of all of his businesses unabashedly.

Replacement of every American institution with a stooge from his campaign. I think he's done with abortion. He's never cared about that. Just said what he needed to say to get elected. Doesn't care about guns. Huge voting restrictions. His team will re-write what children are taught in schools.

I don't know about LGBTQ rights. I can't tell if Trump is as homophobic as his stated views, or if he just spewed that garbage in order to get elected from his base.

And all the while, we'll have to deal with this world where really bad fucking people get their way and win. I can't believe this is reality. I used to think this was the best country in the world. Really debating if that's true right now.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, his laziness may just provide a void for a true believer to start dictating policy.

I'm not sure I could ever credibly argue that the US is the BCitW. I only know it was the one I had. Certainly much of my citizenship and education tried to push the doctrine of American exceptionalism, but I'm not sure I ever really bought it. Firstly, what objective standard of "greatness" can anybody really claim to have applied? And who really has measured every country by that standard?

I do know being a white guy in America growing up at the tail end of the 20th century on the south shore of Long Island made me a uniquely privileged class. I pretty much knew intrinsically, though, that I had to provide a broader standard than my own insanely lucky privilege. And I always understood exceptionalism as meaning that the rules of a nation's behavior applied differently (or not at all) to the United States.

And you don't have to think too long to imagine yourself as a Rwandan and thinking, "That sure sounds like some bullshit."

There was a time, not long ago (perhaps around 2016) that politically independent-minded folks frequently shared that clip of Jeff Daniels in The Newsroom stunning an audience by insisting that the US is not the greatest country, and declaring it the best moment of TV in history or some shit.

Daniels' character was more or less right, of course, but nothing he said seemed all that revelatory to me, and if that was the greatest moment in TV history, we all need to turn off the TV and do some deep reading and strident activism, myself foremost.



But I guess that, as much as I intellectually reject the notion of American exceptionalism, I continue to live under the illusion of it to some extent. If I didn't, last night wouldn't have been such a kick in the face (as braced for it as I was). And while Sinclair Lewis tried to warn us in 1935 that It Can't Happen Here was the delusion of a child, now we've gone and let it happen twice.

[Centerfield]

Could be right? He's lazy. Doesn't feel like doing anything. So he lets Stephen Miller run wild.

Or, he's a narcissist. And he doesn't want Miller or anyone else getting attention, so he keeps him at bay, and says "I'll get to it after golfing" indefinitely.

The interesting thing will be his supporters. I don't expect that their lives will get better at all (except for inflation, which is already calmed down). Will they turn on him eventually? Or will they just say their lives are better even though they're not. I suspect the latter. And he doesn't need his base anymore having already been re-elected. He'll make money off his social media and his crypto and all the grifting accomplish through his presidency. Does he cast them aside like he does his contractors and other workers?

The only saving grace from all of this is if someday, every one of these assholes realizes they've been duped.

[Frayed Knot]

i also do think that a HUGE part of the blame falls on biden and democrats in general, for failing to set kamala up to succeed from the get go in 2020. they ran the country like they didn't have to also win '24, and it showed. kamala should've been a front and center part of the administration as the heir apparent after a single-term-from-the-start biden.

Part of it certainly falls on the party.
Any of them who could add had a pretty good idea that Joe was going to be 82 by this election - 13 years older than Ronald Reagan was when democrats were complaining that he was too old to serve. And anyone with even a little bit of insider knowledge knew Joe was slipping (the fourth or fifth time he claimed that his son died in Iraq should have been a clue) but they chose to ignore it and hoped that the public wouldn't find out and that none of the pundits on their side would spill the beans. They acted only when the debate disaster forced their hand and by then they only had one option left.

Which brings us to Kamala who was, IMO, simply a bad candidate. She ran in 2020 you may recall but dropped out in the very early stages with almost zero support within her own party. This time she was handed the nomination but then mostly hid from the press. When she did engage it was with off the mainstream podcasts and/or with those considered friendly to the cause. Her appearances consisted mostly of word salads devoid of any meaning or specifics. In one with CBS's SUNDAY MORNING a week or so back she was asked repeatedly what kind of legalized abortion bill she'd favor; her only answer was "Reinstate Roe". Except that 'Roe' was a judicial framework, not a law, and you can't simply "reinstate" it. So when pressed on what if any restrictions she might be willing to accept in legislation she reverted (at least five times) to "Reinstate Roe". That's not an answer.
Nor is 'going after price gouging' in response to why you think 'prices' are too high. ' Which prices, and 'too high' based on what? How do you identify 'price gouging', or, for starters, how do you even define it? And why does this come up now when inflation is back to low levels and the real problem is three to four years in the rear view mirror?


So, yeah, a lot of mistakes all around starting with the one where, when faced with an opponent who, while not a traditional conservative, has an odd cult-like hold over a oddly diverse group of far right and conspiracy minded wing nuts which makes the best strategy for winning draining off those in the middle and the economic conservatives who can't stomach pulling the lever for an idiot, maybe running a San Francisco liberal wasn't the best move. But by then it was too late in the game and then there were the complaints that some would abandon the party if they passed over a black woman for someone else. But, hey, why increase your odds of winning elections when you can play identity politics instead.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I think that "inflation" is somewhat of a misnomer as the term is being used here. Inflation is, technically, down. What the electorate is really complaining about is the rate at which prices have increased since Covid. Those prices won't come down even if inflation is tamed or whipped. Also, the steep post-Covid increases in food and grocery prices are not the sitting President's fault and almost entirely beyond his control. But that's the way things shake out sometimes; the President is blamed for things that happen on his watch even if they're not his fault. Trump won't fix the higher grocery prices and from what he's been saying, is likelier than not to exacerbate them.

[Edgy MD]

Another lesson I take is that, if you're betting against Elon Musk, and he's betting against you, he probably somehow already knows the outcome.

[Fman99]

I realized something pretty profound, at least to me personally, in the aftermath of this election.

I have a job where I am at a computer that's online all day and while my work is challenging and time consuming, it does also afford me plenty of opportunities to read the news (or do word puzzles, or post to Mets message boards) during business hours. I excel at multi tasking and no one gives me any grief about my extracurriculars while I'm getting everything done.

But in the last eight years, really, I've spent WAY too much time reading the news, and placing too much importance and effort to keep up, and seeking out left leaning news sources whenever possible, in order to find reassuring things to read and things that would keep me hopeful and optimistic that America might be less stupid than they were in 2016.

Well you can see how that turned out.

So now I'm in detox mode. I will read my daily NY Times email news brief, so as to remain informed of what's going on, but I'm not going to dwell on the news cycle any more. It didn't do me any good, nor will continuing this past for the next four years do me anything but more harm to my mental state.

Same thing with social media. No more X (wildly pro-Trump and disgusting) and no more Threads (wildly pro-Kamala and depressing AF). I'm not getting anything positive out of it personally so I am discarding them from my life.

I'll do what I've been doing, instead, that works best for me. I'll keep my head down, and do my job, and pursue my hobbies and interests, take care of my body and my mind and spirit, and live my life. If you want to accuse me of being a white male and basking in my own privilege, or putting my head in the sand to the injustices of our nation current and future, you go ahead and throw that down. I don't have a strong counter argument to it except to say that it's being done in the name of self-care.

[whippoorwill]

I think that is a good plan for all of us

[metirish]

I agree ,yesterday for the first time in a long ting time I didn't watch ABc World News Tonight

[batmagadanleadoff]

I think that "inflation" is somewhat of a misnomer as the term is being used here. Inflation is, technically, down. What the electorate is really complaining about is the rate at which prices have increased since Covid. Those prices won't come down even if inflation is tamed or whipped. Also, the steep post-Covid increases in food and grocery prices are not the sitting President's fault and almost entirely beyond his control. But that's the way things shake out sometimes; the President is blamed for things that happen on his watch even if they're not his fault. Trump won't fix the higher grocery prices and from what he's been saying, is likelier than not to exacerbate them.

What I meant to say here, but isn't quite clear on second reading is that inflation and the higher cost of prices tend to be the same thing. During inflationary periods, prices rise.

But then at some point, there is a decoupling or untangling of the two. Inflation slows downs or is even tamed. This is where we are now. Prices are rising at more normal or traditional rates. And that is what the Democrats were touting in their Presidential campaign -- that inflation was down or even that there was no longer any inflation. Inflation was fixed.

But that messaging didn't resonate with voters because prices still remained high. Inflation may have slowed but those prices weren't coming down. Dems issued all kinds of fancy data about the economy being great, how America recovered from Covid better than any other country in the world. But voters weren't buying it and the Dems claims came off as elitist and out of touch. Regular Joe couldn't give a flying fuck about the record setting levels that NASDAQ and the NYSE were setting every other day because most Americans don't own stocks. The majority of stocks are owned by a relative few people, in the grand scheme of things. And eggs were still eight dollars for a dozen. The price of groceries that you could buy four years ago for $100.00 had risen to $140.00, $150.00. They didn't wanna hear about how inflation was fixed. And there's a whole new generation of people out there, especially younger voters, who weren't lucky enough to buy homes 25 or 30 years ago, when housing was still somewhat reasonably affordable. They weren't so lucky as to have gotten to sit back and do nothing while the values of their homes doubled, tripled and even quadrupled in a red-hot soaring housing market. There's a whole generation of hard-working young people out there with decent jobs who sincerely believe that the only way they'll ever own a home is if they win the Powerball lottery jackpot.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

You explained it well. There really hasn't been serious inflation in decades, other than commodities sensitive to weather, and those go up down. Any president would be a dead duck--Harris needed a better way to talk about it

[batmagadanleadoff]

The House is still up for grabs. 218 seats are needed for a majority, or control of the House.

WAPO is projecting a GOP slight majority -- 219 to 212, with four races that could go either way (toss-ups).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... cts-house/

[batmagadanleadoff]

You explained it well. There really hasn't been serious inflation in decades, other than commodities sensitive to weather, and those go up down. Any president would be a dead duck--Harris needed a better way to talk about it

It's apparently a world-wide phenomenon. Leaders from all over the globe have lost their re-election bids because of post Covid-related inflation. The reasons for that inflation are so complex, that it's practically ignorant to lay the blame on a sitting President.

[Edgy MD]

I'll also offer that the Catholic vote is usually split even down the middle, but it went to President Trump, 60-37 this time.

[MFS62]

I'll also offer that the Catholic vote is usually split even down the middle, but it went to President Trump, 60-37 this time.

Do you think it was a pushback against the pro choice message of the Democrats?
Later

[Edgy MD]

That's been the default position for 50 or more years, so no, not particularly. Obviously the position is framed differently now after the overturning of Roe v. Wade, so it certainly was relevant. But this was supposed to be the year that the entrenched abortion positions of the two parties bit the Republicans in the butt. Clearly, whoever framed the election that way was wrong.

I think it may be as simple as Vice President Harris blowing off the Al Smith Dinner, and President Trump calling it out as a slight.

[batmagadanleadoff]

[metsmarathon]

i think that (one of) the biggest colossal failure of the democrats may just be that in being so seemingly focused on how to improve the situations of all the others out there, they forgot to drive home the message of how, in helping "others" we help ourselves too.

that dignity and respect and civil rights are not a zero-sum game.

but also that, in helping the others we strengthen "us"

we are not taking away from "us" but are instead rising the tide that lifts all ships.

and part of that, in addition to the chockablock progressiveness of inclusion, diversity, equality, etc, is that economic policies embraced by the left by and large affect and improve the lives of all americans. and in fact especially the downtrodden "true americans" in the middle stretches of the country.

the economic messaging is lost, and obscured. it's gotta be more than just talking about taxing the rich and going after corporations. but empowering blue collar workers, small businesses, family farms, small-town entrepreneurs, and the like. because i do think that a lot of the economic messaging that the republican party makes bank on is deregulation - and small businesses bear the brunt of regulations far moreso than large.

the republican party is great at winning that sort of messaging. no matter that republican policies kill small businesses, blue collar workers, etc. they sound good. and maybe the price of a shitty chinese hammer in walmart ticks down and everybody cheers. well, except for the small independent hardware store down the road that has no hope to compete. and then we all wonder why the rich keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer - and more numerous.

democrats really need to figure out their messaging, to give america back to the american people, instead of the billionaires and tycoons that own it now.

[metirish]

Well, sadly millions of people could and likely will lose their health insurance by the end of 2025 as subsidies built into the American rescue plan will probably not be extended, vote against yourself

[Benjamin Grimm]

What's weird is that many of the people who voted for Trump seem to be more likely to be negatively affected by his election than those who voted against him. (At least financially. Not reproductively.)

[metsmarathon]

Well, sadly millions of people could and likely will lose their health insurance by the end of 2025 as subsidies built into the American rescue plan will probably not be extended, vote against yourself

What's weird is that many of the people who voted for Trump seem to be more likely to be negatively affected by his election than those who voted against him. (At least financially. Not reproductively.)

absolutely. all of this. it's why it's the most frustrating thing. even for americans whose vote was driven by purely self-serving motives, they're shooting their own dicks off.