In Vaccine Thread 2021

[Willets Point]

I hope masking becomes mainstream during flu season and outbreaks of things like norovirus and common colds. Not getting sick at all for the past 14 months has been really nice.

I mean if people could have the attitude: "Well, I felt a bit sick but I'm feeling up to going to work now, but I'll wear a mask just in case," that would be awesome.

I'm thinking about continuing to wear a mask even after my vaccine "kicks in". There's a considerable belief in the medical community that covid, like the regular flu, will never be permanently eradicated and that the best case scenario going forward is for there to be what they are calling a tolerable number of covid deaths every year.

That's how the flu has been treated for 80 years. Lots of people still die from the flu which is why the GOP saying "it's just the flu!" is very telling. Anyway, masking during flu season and COVID season seems like a good idea. I expect there will be annual COVID shots too.

[Ceetar]

There were experts that nailed it exactly, that we'd get to this point and there would be so many mutations and variations that we'd have to get a regular booster like the flu. They mostly seemed to be shouted down or drowned out/ignored.

Those people should now be promoted, hired, put in charge, but I'm sure they won't be.

[Ceetar]

There's a US Supreme Court case that might be about 100 years old but is still good law because it hasn't been overruled holding that the Gov't can force citizens to get vaccinated in health emergencies. I'm going by memory here. I think the case originated from Boston, or if not Boston, then Massachusetts.

Wonder what would happen if some Gov't agency or official tried to enforce that law today, in these times?

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on- ... lic-health

1905. Jacobson v. Massachussetts. Get the Smallpox vaccine or pay $5 fine. Jacobson's main argument was that “compulsion to introduce disease into a healthy system is a violation of liberty.” which isn't how vaccines work today so that argument wouldn't even fly.


followups: re vaccinations for school "Zucht v. King, Justice Louis Brandeis and a unanimous court held that Jacobson “settled that it is within the police power of a state to provide for compulsory vaccination” and the case and others “also settled that a state may, consistently with the federal Constitution, delegate to a municipality authority to determine under what conditions health regulations shall become operative.”

and as recently as 2002 (this was a federal district court) " declined to find a exemption to mandatory vaccinations laws for “sincerely held religious beliefs” "





There is some nuance, since the vaccines are currently only under EUA, but there's still an interpretation that allows that, though I"m sure it'd be fought and delayed which might make it moot, for THIS pandemic anyway.

[MFS62]

So far, the only major store chain to say you don't have to wear a mask is Trader Joe's.
If all their stores are like the one near me, that's nuts!
It is small, and has the narrowest aisles of any food store in the area, so folks passing each other are thisclose.

I don't go there often, but it will be less and less for a while.

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

So far, the only major store chain to say you don't have to wear a mask is Trader Joe's.
If all their stores are like the one near me, that's nuts!
It is small, and has the narrowest aisles of any food store in the area, so folks passing each other are thisclose.

I don't go there often, but it will be less and less for a while.

Later

Walmart, Trader Joe's and Costco say vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks in stores


https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/business ... index.html

[MFS62]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/business ... index.html

That report is stamped 6:12 PM, later than the report I heard.
Later

[The Hot Corner]

My question is, how do you tell who has truly been vaccinated and who is simply claiming to have been vaccinated. The honor system doesn't work for me. I know doctors offices are one of the exemptions in the new CDC pronouncement, but we had already decided that we would continue our policy of no shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service. No excuses and no exceptions.

I expect that a significant number of the people that will be running around without masks will be the anti-mask, anti-vaccination crowd.

[Double Switch]

We have Trader Joe's here but I have never acquired the habit.

I prefer my mask in public. In my area, I seem to be mainstream. I seldom see anyone without a mask even outdoors except if they are eating or smoking. The other thing, we'll be back in standard flu season in a few months so I don't plan to lose my mask collection. Not getting flu or colds or other respiratory ailments has been a welcome side effect of COVID19 avoidance and I value that benefit. As for trusting people who claim to be vaxxed, nah. I don't know you and I don't have a single reason to trust you. I don't want to see your face. Not anytime soon.

[kcmets]

The CDC thing is young, but I went to Wal-ly World, Costco, Shoprite, a smaller market and a con-
venience store today and everyone was masked. There's hope, at least around here, that people
aren't gonna think it's all over and will be responsible.

[batmagadanleadoff]

State law is supposed to trump CDC guidance.

New CDC guidance won't end NY mask mandate yet, Cuomo says

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/corona ... 081053001/

[LWFS]

The CDC thing is young, but I went to Wal-ly World, Costco, Shoprite, a smaller market and a con-
venience store today and everyone was masked. There's hope, at least around here, that people
aren't gonna think it's all over and will be responsible.

Same thing wherever I've been over the last few days in NYC and north NJ

[Frayed Knot]

Gary mentioned during the game telecast today that the Mets are "nowhere near" the 85% vaccinated threshold which would allow them to loosen certain protocols in the dugout and clubhouse.

WTF Dudes?!?!

[Fman99]

Gary mentioned during the game telecast today that the Mets are "nowhere near" the 85% vaccinated threshold which would allow them to loosen certain protocols in the dugout and clubhouse.

WTF Dudes?!?!

How many of these dudes are red state hayseeds? Forgive me for over simplifying, I assume anyone not getting a vaccine is just drinking the dumb-ass Kool Aid

[Frayed Knot]

... I assume anyone not getting a vaccine is just drinking the dumb-ass Kool Aid

Some maybe, but not all.
I've mentioned before that I've talked to people who are definitely not part of the tinfoil hat crowd who think this is the government's attempt to inject them with Hillary's DNA or Bill Gates
putting a chip in their brain, but are still taking a wait and see approach. They think the whole process was rushed, or they claim to want to see if there are adverse effects on those they
know who are getting them, or they just feel young and invulnerable and don't want to trade the no effects they have now for potential side effects of getting the shot. Or maybe they're
just fraidy-scared of needles are are making up excuses, I dunno.

The one thing about these ballplayers is that they almost certainly had access to vaccines as soon or sooner than most availability can't be the reason, and you'd assume that there'd be
a degree of peer pressure from the guys they're working, traveling and practically living with to get this done and not risk having their schedule all messed up by a few positives, even
asymptomatic ones. I wonder what advice, if any, the Player's Union is giving them on this. Sometimes simply the act of the teams telling players that this is the right thing to do acts
as a trigger for the union to tell them to do the opposite. On the other hand, there are teams that have passed the 85% mark including even the Yanx who had their own mini-outbreak
this week, though mostly involving non-players.

[MFS62]

Stupid problems require stupid solutions.
Don't tell anti-maskers that the mask stops COVID-19.
Tell them that it stops facial recognition software used by the 5G Federal Government Skynet from tracking you.
And tell them their tinfoil hat short circuits the chip in the vaccine.

Later

[kcmets]

Dollaresque store had Dr. Fauci votive candles for sale this morning.

This country is off the hook. It can't even see the hook.

[batmagadanleadoff]

There are millions of immunocompromised Americans for whom covid vaccines might not work at all.


Coronavirus vaccines may not work in some people. It’s because of their underlying conditions.


Excerpt:

The state worker is among millions of immunocompromised Americans, about 3 to 4 percent of the U.S. population, for whom the shots may not work fully, or at all, and who are unsure of their place in a country that is increasingly opening up. Emerging research shows that 15 to 80 percent of those with certain conditions, such as specific blood cancers or who have had organ transplants, are generating few antibodies.

[***]

Vaccine makers excluded immunocompromised people from their clinical trials in an understandable rush to develop a way to protect as many people as quickly as possible. As a result, there’s limited information about how this group is reacting to the shots, as well as to the loosening of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention restrictions.

The ability of such patients to fend off the novel coronavirus is not just a footnote in the pandemic involving one unlucky group — but potentially a critical part of the narrative about how new, more contagious variants are continuing to emerge worldwide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -response/

[Frayed Knot]

So how is it that there were 15K fans in MSG on Sunday but outdoor baseball in NYC is still limited to, what, 25%?

[nymr83]

There are millions of immunocompromised Americans for whom covid vaccines might not work at all.

Hardly a problem if everyone would get vaccinated. There are always people who can't get a vaccine or who it wouldn't work on. We keep them safe by getting everyone else vaccinated to end the spread.

We should be applying the pressure. You can't force people to get vaccinated. But you could make the standard deduction $0 with a [insert current deduction] tax credit for being vaccinated. and many other such similar tricks.

[Ceetar]

There are millions of immunocompromised Americans for whom covid vaccines might not work at all.

Hardly a problem if everyone would get vaccinated. There are always people who can't get a vaccine or who it wouldn't work on. We keep them safe by getting everyone else vaccinated to end the spread.

We should be applying the pressure. You can't force people to get vaccinated. But you could make the standard deduction $0 with a [insert current deduction] tax credit for being vaccinated. and many other such similar tricks.

well, you _could_ almost force people to get it. that's help.


You could also slow the reopening, in any of the stages since April, so that cases actually drop significantly before loosening restrictions, so that the potential exposure a compromised or 10 year old person might face is significantly lessened. It's constantly infuriating that we've done the bare minimum.

[MFS62]

As we might have suspected, the smarter you are, the more likely to get vaccinated, And the less smart - not.
From the NY Daily News (via AOL.)

A Daily News analysis of vaccination data and IQ averages in each state reveals that five of the 10 states with the lowest IQs are also among the 10 states with the lowest rates of fully vaccinated adults. And half of the 10 smartest states rank among the 10 most vaccinated ones.

https://www.aol.com/news/state-both-cou ... 32237.html

Later

[kcmets]

As we might have suspected, the smarter you are, the more likely to get vaccinated, And the less smart - not.
From the NY Daily News (via AOL.)

A Daily News analysis of vaccination data and IQ averages in each state reveals that five of the 10 states with the lowest IQs are also among the 10 states with the lowest rates of fully vaccinated adults. And half of the 10 smartest states rank among the 10 most vaccinated ones.

https://www.aol.com/news/state-both-cou ... 32237.html

Later

I'm not clicking on an aol link, but geez do they really suggest there are high IQ and low IQ states?

Has anyone here had their IQ measured by their state of residence?

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'm not clicking on an aol link, but geez do they really suggest there are high IQ and low IQ states?

Yes. Here's how it works: those states whose residents have, on average, the highest IQ's, are deemed the highest IQ states. Those states whose residents have , on average, the lowest IQ's, are deemed the lowest IQ states.

Also, those states that have, on average, the highest temperatures year-round are deemed to be the warmest states in the nation.

And those states that have the most highways are deemed to be the states that have the most highways

[Ceetar]

It's actually a daily news article, but it's complete and utter nonsense.

It's "premise" is that education isn't a good enough measure of intelligence, (even though education and vaccination rate seem to correlate) and tries to find a better way to see if intelligence and vaccination rate are linked...

..but goes by IQ which is racially biased, and mostly bunk as a way of measuring intelligence. It's just some random test somebody came up with a century ago. And then it uses data from 2006 to rank states!

And then has to get fuzzy with the numbers to even correlate them subjectively. There are no graphs, there are no R factors, there's no statistics. It's just lists where some of the same states appear in a generous grouping of top and bottom states.

[nymr83]

So, basically, its exactly what you'd expect a Daily News article to be - useless.