The Crane Pool Forum

That the cops are ineffective arms of the police and the gun issue are separate issues (mostly, obviously except for the murders cops commit with guns)

It's just that these situations are the one and only reason people cite as why the police are needed. public safety. But it's pretty damn clear they don't do that.

You could solve so many problems with that money, housing crisis, minimum wage, hell, you could give buy every gun for $1000.


People talk a good game, but as we saw with vaccines, they're full of it. You tell a lot of these (often poor!) gun nuts that they can have money, they'll cave.


But Democrats won't do anything and the 52 right-wing/fascist senators will never do anything either. Make we can hope for a token reform, that they'll try to pretend is useful, as cover for not doing anything but more likely..

we're gonna get invasion of privacy, spying, and increasing the surveillance state.

The police don't care because it's only women, but it's only a matter of time before they realize they can get MORE money for a special "spy on the teens" task force that just increases the violations of privacy. The "one door with an ineffective rentacop" solution is obviously dumb and just offered up so you stop asking Cruz to be accountable, but 'you must install this tracking app on your phone so we know where you are all all times' is definitely lurking.

Elon Musk will probably chime in soon that if the killer was driving a tesla they could've cut the power to it and swarmed him before he got there. They double down on the racist profiling algorithms they use too, which will result in them shooting black uncles trying to pick up their nieces, but ignore the white teen promising to buy a gun and shoot everyone.

Good :D I apologize for my defense of the police; my husband has informed me that they did indeed wait too long. I've had a long week boys, so I wasn't up to date.

And part of it was spent at an elementary school with several hundred kids so the thought of how easy this could happen is heavy on my mind.

Ted Cruz gives one reason for the increase in mass shootings:

Declining church attendance. I guess I dont see eye to eye with the Senator because I'm certain that thatd be one of the greatest gifts to humanity and real, meaningful progress.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 4:46 pm Ted Cruz gives one reason for the increase in mass shootings:

Declining church attendance. I guess I dont see eye to eye with the Senator because I'm certain that thatd be one of the greatest gifts to humanity and real, meaningful progress.

I mean, that's just math right? Less people at mass, less mass shootings.

Ceetar wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:06 pm

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 4:46 pm Ted Cruz gives one reason for the increase in mass shootings:

Declining church attendance. I guess I dont see eye to eye with the Senator because I'm certain that thatd be one of the greatest gifts to humanity and real, meaningful progress.

I mean, that's just math right? Less people at mass, less mass shootings.

And then there was the asian guy in California who went to church a few weeks ago and then committed a mass shooting in the church itself.

yeah but you know what cancun Ted things about asians.

More about Kapler's anthem protest, from the Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... e-baseball

Some interesting ,but not unexpected stuff:

Still, a 2019-20 Morning Consult fan survey found that the difference in political affiliations between the leading leagues was not vast, with 38% of MLB followers identifying as Democrats and 32% as Republicans – almost the same as the NFL – while 42% of NBA fans were Democrats and 26% Republicans.

MLB moved last year’s All-Star Game away from Atlanta in response to a voter-suppression law passed by Republicans in Georgia. However, team owners, who tend to be older, white billionaires, give substantially more to Republicans than Democrats, with MLB owners by far the most generous conservative donors, according to FiveThirtyEight.

Later

Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:16 am Oh, and I want to see bodies.

I want to see the bodies of 10-year-olds with their faces shot off. That sounds inhuman. But we sanitize these shootings. The coverage is a lot of police yellow tape and makeshift memorials with lots of candles. Always with the candles, like that's going to do anything.

People need to see what actually happens, because it would shock them. And shock is what we need to get anything done. Grisly pictures are needed, something that would make you throw up. Just once I'd like to see someone publish the crime scene pictures. They always take them, and keep them locked away forever. People need to be hit over the head with what these tragedies actually involve.

This approach has been shown to work.

Here's a NY Times article (reprint minus the paywall) that discusses whether the pictures should be shown:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sandy-hook-u ... 26517.html

I say yes, my wife disagrees.

Later

Another mass shooting. A hospital in Tulsa. At least four dead.

geeze. Seems like maybe some of these guys should be removed from the militia.

Washington Post agrees that we need an 'Emmitt Till Moment'.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ic-images/

And makes the point that the George Floyd killing only inflamed the country because there was video. Nobody would know Rodney King without video, either.

MFS62 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 5:00 pm Here's a NY Times article (reprint minus the paywall) that discusses whether the pictures should be shown:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sandy-hook-u ... 26517.html

I say yes, my wife disagrees.

Later

There was security camera footage shown of the Columbine massacre and it didn't have any effect. The underlying problem of the American insurrectionists is that they are completely deficient in empathy. So pictures won't convince anyone who wasn't already convinced.

How about, I don't know, EMMITT TILL?!?! Fuck that. Change needs to happen now.

Previous generations of white supremacist insurrectionists would have community picnics around lynchings and then circulate lynching postcards of the dead and mangled human bodies to celebrate the murder. It's not a case of "they don't know" so much as "they don't care," or perhaps even "they can't care."

seawolf17 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:21 pm How about, I don't know, EMMITT TILL?!?! Fuck that. Change needs to happen now.

Emmitt Till's mother Mamie Till made the choice to show Emmit's body to the public at the funeral. If families of gun massacre victims want to do the same that is their choice, but none of them should be given even the suggestion that it is something that they should do from anyone outside the family. At any rate, since Emmitt Till we've seen many, many Black boys (Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, et al) murdered and their killers exonerated and even celebrated. So I think the pictures of Till had a negligible effect on changing the hearts and minds of the insurrectionists who want nothing more than extermination of everyone they've classified as their enemies.

Is the point even to win over the most extreme gun lovers? The White Supremists? They're lost. They're too far gone. Just like Dem pols aren't trying to win over the QAnon'ers and the people that watch Fox News for 10+ hours a week. That part of the electorate is too extreme, too radicalized, too lost. They're not changing their minds. Just like in Germany, there are still people who think Hitler and the Nazis were great.

Let me put it another way. In the 1950s there were some white liberals and moderates outside of the South who were unaware of the severity of lynching and seeing Emmitt Till's funeral photos moved them to support broader Civil Rights legislation (although I would also note that the Antilynching Act only became law TWO MONTHS AGO).

Today there's like 80-90% of Americans who already support regulations to prevent gun violence. The 10-20% who object to regulations aren't doing it because they don't know what an assault rifle can do to a child's body. They know! Probably they know it even better than most of us. Some of them even relish what those weapons can do. So, no, I don't think pictures are going to convince anyone who isn't already convinced to support regulations of firearms.

Willets Point wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:54 pm Let me put it another way. In the 1950s there were some white liberals and moderates outside of the South who were unaware of the severity of lynching and seeing Emmitt Till's funeral photos moved them to support broader Civil Rights legislation (although I would also note that the Antilynching Act only became law TWO MONTHS AGO).

Today there's like 80-90% of Americans who already support regulations to prevent gun violence. The 10-20% who object to regulations aren't doing it because they don't know what an assault rifle can do to a child's body. They know! Probably they know it even better than most of us. Some of them even relish what those weapons can do. So, no, I don't think pictures are going to convince anyone who isn't already convinced to support regulations of firearms.

Totally agree. The support for gun control is already there. It's the politicians and the lobbyists they're beholden to that's the problem.

The Republicans have been bought. There is literally no amount of shootings, no photos, no petitions that will ever cause them to change their minds.

Until we have campaign finance reform, this will never change.

Well, maybe the point isn't to swing the 10–20% at all. Maybe the point should be to move the support of the 80–90% to demand.

I agree, certainly, that whether to use the photos to tell the stories is the families' choice.

Initial reports on the Tulsa shooting didn't seem to suggest that the shooter had an assault rifle. Turned out, he indeed used and AR-15 that he had bought hours earlier.

we had worldwide rallies in 2020 and all that happened is the police budget went up. It's pretty clear that even the 80-90% have no immediate power. Sure, these things will change in 20 years when even the people in power are less in the pocket of the NRA (and in the pocket of something else, likely) Sort of like how despite like, Reagan killing tens of thousands of gay people it still took decades to get even marriage equality.

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:55 pm Well, maybe the point isn't to swing the 10–20% at all. Maybe the point should be to move the support of the 80–90% to demand.

Exactly. 80-90% support common sense gun reform. But it's not their top issue. Putting it in their face shifts the dynamic at least a little bit.

A Boy Named Seo wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 1:27 pm Check out the Yankees twitter TL yesterday. Sounds like the Rays did something similar, too. Good job, NYY.

Rays just got the funding for their practice complex — which was meant to serve as a youth resource facility — line-item vetoed by Governor Desantis.

The Yankees should stick to baseball stats. I'm sure it's much higher than 6X.