Re: Russia, Ukraine and NATO 2022
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:10 pm
Do you think the average Republican realizes that?
Let innuendo work for both parties.
Later
Let innuendo work for both parties.
Later
Spirited discussions about the New York Mets and just about everything else
https://phpbb3.ultimatemets.com/
LaterThe conflict in Ukraine is really two wars: the war of arms and the war of ideas. With his overwhelming advantage in troops and firepower, Vladimir Putin seems likely to win the first. The second, he has already lost.
The moment his missiles started landing with a thud around Ukrainian cities, the world recoiled in shock, outrage and disgust. Whatever shreds were left of his tattered mask as a civilized world leader were torn away, exposing him not just as a liar who had claimed to have no intention of invading Russia’s independent neighbour but as a raving conspiracy theorist who saw Nazis hiding under the bed.
Instead of extinguishing the flame of Ukrainian nationalism, he rekindled it. Citizens of the nation he claimed should not even exist rushed to the blue-and-yellow flag, united in their determination to resist and endure. His attack left many of his own people embarrassed and appalled. Russia’s reputation, already so tarnished by his annexation of Crimea, his Olympic cheating, his murderous repression of dissent and his attempts to undermine Western elections, now bears a bright scarlet stain.
None of this may matter much to Mr. Putin now. He seems impervious to shame. But reputation matters. Ideas matter. The Soviet empire whose collapse he so regrets fell apart not just because its superstructure was rotten but because it lost the battle of hearts and minds. The Berlin Wall may have kept East Germans from fleeing to the West, but it showed the world that the Soviet system was a dismal failure, unable to retain its subjects except by penning them in.
Ukraine is Mr. Putin’s Berlin Wall. Military victory there, if it comes, will carry a cost far greater than any ground he may gain.
For let’s be clear: This attack is about far more than Ukraine. It’s part of a larger struggle between democracy and its enemies. Mr. Putin and his allies in that struggle, notably China’s Xi Jinping, say that they have an alternative to the fractious complexity of democratic life. They say that, with wise and powerful figures such as them in charge, citizens can enjoy prosperity, stability and national pride without the bother of changing leaders every few years.
Mr. Putin’s reckless gamble exposes the critical flaw in that claim. Strongman rule promises order, but it often ends in violence and chaos. Without the democratic checks on their power, strongmen grow isolated, arrogant and often unstable. Mr. Putin is a classic of the type. Surrounded by lackeys, ensconced in his Kremlin echo chamber, he has come to believe himself the messiah of the Russian nation, the only one who can save it from the encroachment of a corrupt and decadent West. Mr. Xi shows the same messianic tendencies.
For a good while, their argument seemed to be carrying the day. Russia came out of its post-Soviet malaise. Mr. Putin fought off challenges from liberal opponents and became a popular symbol of Russian resurgence. Mr. Xi’s China grew rich and powerful without free elections or a free press. Strongmen from Turkey to the Philippines looked on with admiration.
Democracy was in retreat. Even some of the oldest democracies were embroiled in internal divisions: Britain’s over Brexit and the United States over Donald Trump.
Ukraine could be a turning point. The world’s democracies, so weak for so long, are more united than they have been for years. NATO has a new lease on life. Even American politicians are for once on the same page.
The Putin attempt to crush Ukraine has reminded us both of the dangers of the unbridled strongman and of the value of democracy, still by far the best guarantor not just of freedom but of order. The reminder is overdue. Too often, we have taken our system for granted or succumbed to doubt about its merits. Too often, we have wondered if its opponents are right when they say they have found a better way. Didn’t Mr. Putin have a point when he said Russia had been humiliated by the West? Wasn’t Mr. Xi correct to say the Communist Party had delivered lasting peace and wealth?
Mr. Putin’s attack has clarified things. It is hard to see it now, as the bombs fall in Kyiv and Kharkiv, but Mr. Putin may have done the democratic cause a great favour.
yes. exactly.Willets Point wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:52 am As I noted earlier, Putin timed the invasion during the Biden Presidency because he knew it would hurt a Democratic President in just this way.
Well, it's only been FIVE days.Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:39 pmBiden does not get enough credit for the effective, unified western response. It simply doesn't happen without him, and not enough people realize this.
True, but once committed, it's hard to un-commit. Sure, there'll be 'leaks' and countries willing to help you get around sanctions. Iran didn't collapse when we put sanctions on them, but they did come to the table about their nuclear program (another thing destroyed by Trump). Putin won't be brought to his knees in 5 days or even 5 months. But these sanctions are pretty tough, and they're going to cause a lot of unrest among the regular people and oligarchs alike. And the longer they're on, the more they'll hurt.kcmets wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:52 pmWell, it's only been FIVE days.Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:39 pmBiden does not get enough credit for the effective, unified western response. It simply doesn't happen without him, and not enough people realize this.
This Russia expert doesn't take nukes off the table: (long, but offers a complete picture of Putin and how he thinks)Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:00 pmNo. It's bluster, and Biden didn't fall for it. Even on regular alert, our nuke forces and theirs get up to speed pretty quickly.
LaterThere’s lots of danger ahead, she warned. Putin is increasingly operating emotionally and likely to use all the weapons at his disposal, including nuclear ones. It’s important not to have any illusions — but equally important not to lose hope.
“Every time you think, ’No, he wouldn’t, would he?’ Well, yes, he would,” Hill said. “And he wants us to know that, of course. It’s not that we should be intimidated and scared…. We have to prepare for those contingencies and figure out what is it that we’re going to do to head them off.”
___________Televangelist Pat Robertson said Monday that Russian President Vladimir Putin was “compelled by God” in his decision to invade Ukraine, suggesting that Russia’s attacks are a precursor to an end-times battle in Israel.
Also:Nina Khrushcheva, an international-affairs professor at the New School in New York and the great-granddaughter of former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, told me. She said the Russian leader [Vladimir Putin] appears to “have lost all grip on reality, more so than I was willing to admit only yesterday.” She added, “I didn’t think he was suicidal, but he clearly is, and is taking the world and us with him.” She described Putin as a “ruthless megalomaniac with a giant imperialist agenda” akin to Stalin and Mao.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... r-criminalOthers compared [Putin] to Hitler. “There are many parallels between Hitler’s invasion of Poland in 1939 and Putin’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022,” Michael McFaul, the former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, who is now at Stanford University, tweeted on Thursday. Putin no longer appears to be a rational actor on the international stage, experts say. “I hate comparing people to Hitler, but Putin’s crazy talk is making it hard to avoid,” Stephen Sestanovich, a Russia expert at Columbia University, told me. “Did he think forcing all of his advisers to stand up on television and say, in such obvious discomfort, that they agreed with him would make the decision for war look careful and deliberate? My Russian friends suggest something different—is this guy losing it?”
Reminds me of a super cringeworthy cabinet meeting that took place sometime during the orange shitbag era. Where they all kissed his ring.batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:55 amOthers compared [Putin] to Hitler. “There are many parallels between Hitler’s invasion of Poland in 1939 and Putin’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022,” Michael McFaul, the former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, who is now at Stanford University, tweeted on Thursday. Putin no longer appears to be a rational actor on the international stage, experts say. “I hate comparing people to Hitler, but Putin’s crazy talk is making it hard to avoid,” Stephen Sestanovich, a Russia expert at Columbia University, told me. “Did he think forcing all of his advisers to stand up on television and say, in such obvious discomfort, that they agreed with him would make the decision for war look careful and deliberate? My Russian friends suggest something different—is this guy losing it?”
I read this piece by Fiona Hill also. She is certainly no crackpot and it did unsettle my stomach some.MFS62 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:40 pmThis Russia expert doesn't take nukes off the table: (long, but offers a complete picture of Putin and how he thinks)Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:00 pmNo. It's bluster, and Biden didn't fall for it. Even on regular alert, our nuke forces and theirs get up to speed pretty quickly.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... e-00012340
LaterThere’s lots of danger ahead, she warned. Putin is increasingly operating emotionally and likely to use all the weapons at his disposal, including nuclear ones. It’s important not to have any illusions — but equally important not to lose hope.
“Every time you think, ’No, he wouldn’t, would he?’ Well, yes, he would,” Hill said. “And he wants us to know that, of course. It’s not that we should be intimidated and scared…. We have to prepare for those contingencies and figure out what is it that we’re going to do to head them off.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... pt-foiled/A recent alleged assassination plot against Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was foiled over the weekend and the Chechen servicemen sent from Russia were “destroyed,” a Ukrainian security leader said Tuesday.
Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, said during a broadcast marathon airing on Ukrainian TV channels that officials were recently tipped off that a unit of Kadyrovites, elite Chechen special forces, was on its way to kill Zelensky. After Ukrainian officials were informed by Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB), the Chechen special forces were killed Saturday on the outskirts of Kyiv, Danilov said.