The More or Less of Whatnot Thread 2023

[metsmarathon]

storing batteries in cold temperatures absolutely works to prolong their life, as it slows the chemical reaction that happens inside the battery to release those juicy electrons.

using batteries in cold temperatures sucks for the same reason.

[batmagadanleadoff]

storing batteries in cold temperatures absolutely works to prolong their life, as it slows the chemical reaction that happens inside the battery to release those juicy electrons.

using batteries in cold temperatures sucks for the same reason.

So then would you recommend the freezer over the regular part of the refrigerator for battery storage? Or is that too cold?

[Edgy MD]

storing batteries in cold temperatures absolutely works to prolong their life, as it slows the chemical reaction that happens inside the battery to release those juicy electrons.

using batteries in cold temperatures sucks for the same reason.

The fridge also makes for a good place to find them later when you need 'em.

[metsmarathon]

putting them in the freezer may put them outside their happy operating range. they could literally freeze and rupture. they also won't work as well until they warm up to room temperature.

the other thing that's worth considering is condensation. you probably don't want that to build up on your batteries as it certainly could corrode the terminals.

actually, battery manufacturers recommend against storing batteries in the fridge, and certainly in the freezer. the moisture present in those environments being the key reason. apparently, a google search tells me that modern alkaline batteries no longer see nearly as much benefit from cold storage, so even if you could keep 'em dry, it may not be worth taking space away from your ice cream stockpile.

i do think that part of the anti-recommendation is likely because the temperatures in some freezers can get too low for the batteries to still be happy. or from people taking their ice cold batteries out and not getting enough juice right away before the batteries warm up. or lots of other reasons that are out of the control of the battery manufacturer, but for which they could still be blamed by a customer, so they just recommend against it.

so... i guess... do what the battery-makers suggest, and keep your (alkaline) batteries cool and dry, but not necessarily cold and preferably not freezing.

and for god sake, keep your lithium ion batteries in velvet-lined, temperature-controlled humidors. those things are little grenades just waiting to happen! or, so says the internets.

[MFS62]

I keep my spare batteries in the refrigerator. A long time ago, I read that this prolongs the battery life. I know that in the past, I've pulled batteries out of the fridge that were in there for years and years. They worked fine. Like brand new. And lasted about as long as if I'd began using them right after I bought them.

I wonder if that works as well for the new electric car batteries. We were always told that you have to start your gas powered car in the winter if you don't drive it a lot to keep the battery charged. That's how you get "dead batteries" in cold weather.
Why are smaller batteries different?
Later

[metsmarathon]

with lower temperatures, your electric car batteries will have lower output, since the chemical reaction within them should be slower.

the reason you would get a dead battery in winter is not that the battery has lost capacity (provided it was not cold enough to damage it) but because the temperature inside causes the internal chemical reaction to be too slow to provide the required amount of electrons to get your car started.

The problem with car batteries in the winter is that they need to dump a lot of power in a short amount of time. and a car engine needs more power in winter to start, since the oil is thicker, therefore more energy is needed to spin up the crankshaft.

and the slower chemistry is also why you would want to let your car run to recharge your battery. if you're just starting it up and taking a short trip, you're not recharging it nearly as fast, so you may not get back up to a full charge before you let it sit again. and if its not at a full charge, it'll have even fewer available delicious electrons to use to start up your car.

in an EV, you've also got the problem that the batteries are what's used to heat up the interior of the car, so that's pulling off your range as well.

[MFS62]

if you're just starting it up and taking a short trip, you're not recharging it nearly as fast, so you may not get back up to a full charge before you let it sit again. and if its not at a full charge, it'll have even fewer available delicious electrons to use to start up your car.

That's what I was talking about.
Thanks.
Later

[MFS62]

When discussing politicians, nobody uses the word "varmint" as much as they should.
Later

[kcmets]

what do you mean by 'heavy duty' batteries?

See! People don't even know what they are.

Heavy duty batteries are non-alkaline batteries. KB bought a large sleeve
of AA's the other day because, "they were cheaper."

They are cheaper because they are useless in stuff made after like 1993..

[metsmarathon]

oh shit, yeah, those things.

i guess they still sell 'em because people often tend to buy things based on price. and they do work in some stuff. like, uh.... transistor radios? are they still a thing?

[batmagadanleadoff]

So how do youse operate your remote controls, for example, without those batteries that "nobody should be using anymore"?

[kcmets]

I use alkaline. I'm sure heavy duty would be ok for a remote and that's
probably where they'll get used up.

[metirish]

My driver's license expired on my birthday, as I wear glasses I needed to do the eye exam etc.. did that and mailed it in, as the eye exam was done as a favor from a eye doc at work he didn't have the ability to upload into the DMV system, I mailed it in weeks ago, thought in plenty of time , tunes out DMV system says estimated mailing date is 2/27... So I'm driving now with an expired DL... I did get into a chat with the DMV, person really tried to help but really couldn't do anything, even expedite the mailing was out.

[MFS62]

I use alkaline. I'm sure heavy duty would be ok for a remote and that's
probably where they'll get used up.

I use the heavy duty 6 volt batteries in my smoke detectors. I change them twice a year anyhow, so they don't have time to lose power. And if they do, my smoke detectors will ring to alert me.

Later

[kcmets]

Right, I'm sure there are still some uses. We have a lot of remotes, a lot,
and I can't remember the last time I had to swap out alkaline batteries. The
heavy doodie ones just don't last as long.

[Edgy MD]

Smoke detector alarm frequencies have the benefit of really making dogs insane, so if you're so dead asleep that the beeping doesn't wake you, your pooch totally will.

That should be an advantage, but years of dogs being tormented by a burnt piece of toast triggering the alarm has led me — and I suspect not a small amount of others — to tear the buggers out of the ceiling one by one. I promise myself to re-install them sometime when Mrs. Edgy is out of the house, but I haven't, and am living dangerously in the meantime.

[metirish]

My driver's license expired on my birthday, as I wear glasses I needed to do the eye exam etc.. did that and mailed it in, as the eye exam was done as a favor from a eye doc at work he didn't have the ability to upload into the DMV system, I mailed it in weeks ago, thought in plenty of time , tunes out DMV system says estimated mailing date is 2/27... So I'm driving now with an expired DL... I did get into a chat with the DMV, person really tried to help but really couldn't do anything, even expedite the mailing was out.

Came in the mail today, but I need/want to get the "Real ID". Drivers license, just don't want to go to the DMV

[whippoorwill]

Yeah I want to get one of those too but don’t want to go to the DMV.

[MFS62]

Just noticed KC's new signature - a line from Hunt For Red October.
Nice
Later

[kcmets]

The best (bullseye) line from that movie is:

"Listen, I'm a politician, which means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when
I'm not kissing babies, I'm stealing their lollipops."

[Lefty Specialist]

Just back to batteries for a sec. In my experience, electric cars lose about 10% of their driving range at 32 degrees or so. When it's really cold (say around zero) it's more like 25%. Batteries don't like to be cold, which is why most new EV's have a temperature management system which will heat up your batteries in cold weather. EV battery packs can also be 'preconditioned' before charging so that they're at the right temperature to maximize charge efficiency.

Batteries also don't like to be hot, but the loss of range there stems more from the use of airconditioning than the chemical process. You'd have to be well over 100 for that to make a difference (although in places like Arizona that can be a factor). Batteries are happiest between 40 and 104 degrees.

[kcmets]

I forget if I've said this here before or maybe it was elsewhere but I
don't get why an electric car with four spinning wheels can't charge it-
self or at least supplement the charging. Maybe it does.

[metsmarathon]

that's what regenerative braking does. it takes the energy from the wheels spinning, slowing their roll, and storing that energy in the battery.

when you don't want the car to slow down, you need to put energy into the wheels from the battery.

for me, the best architecture for a car was the chevy volt, which was primarily an electric vehicle, but with an internal combustion range extender engine that could also add power to the wheels when needed. i really wished they'd've made it in something bigger than a 4-seat compact car, like maybe a largish midsized wagon, because damn i would've been all over that in a heartbeat.

i have a thing for wagons.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Wagons make the most sense as vehicles that's why you can't buy them anymore. Unless you're prepared to pay big bucks for a Volvo

[TransMonk]

I've got a 2021 Honda CRV Hybrid and can confirm that braking (and coasting to some degree) charges the battery and that I get about 7-10 MPG less in Wisconsin winters than in the summer.