The Crane Pool Forum

I figured we could start a general thread for the Presidential election to consolidate some of the Trump vs. Harris match-up going forward.

Obviously, the other threads are available for specific subjects (veeps, Biden, trials, etc.) should you choose to use them, but this could serve as the general thread for the top of the ticket fight that has been reset.

I was lucky enough to be in the room for the Harris campaign kick off. For as low as D's have been the past three weeks, this was a very high event.

https://apnews.com/article/harris-elect ... 6e92989a4b

That's VERY cool. I've gone through the gamut of emotions the past month. The certainty that Biden would beat Trump in the debate and the shock when he completely fumbled it. The anger, first at his aides who let him go out there like that, then at the sloooooooow withdrawal of support over the next few weeks. The fear that this would lead to a shitshow as various factions of the party fought for dominance. The depression that Biden was fighting a losing battle and the spectre of Trump triumphant and vengeful.

I thought Biden was going to stick it out only to get his clock cleaned in November, the only reason being that he was old and looked it. People were ignoring that Trump was almost as old, said crazy shit on a regular basis, and had a program in place that would end America as we know it. The wounded ear and the JD Vance selection just deepened my mood.

I think Joe Biden has been a great president given what he's had to deal with. But great wasn't enough when he was walking gingerly and stumbling over his words. The drip-drip-drip of bad stories and defections was torturous. When he finally pulled the plug, I was relieved.

Relieved but nervous. I remembered Kamala 2019, where she never even made it to the primaries. But when Joe endorsed her it was like a weight was lifted from the whole party. They could get back to the business of making this election about Trump, his dangerous unfitness and threat to democracy. As the potential rivals all coalesced behind her, as the donations poured in (mine included), the road ahead becomes clear. Kamala's a prosecutor again, and she's ready to go after Trump.

I feel better about this election than I have in a couple of months. The Trump people will fight dirty, but she's willing to fight back in ways that Biden would have thought unseemly or 'beneath the office'. For that I'm grateful. Still plenty of time to go before the election, but I'm optimistic.

Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 10:08 am
I think Joe Biden has been a great president given what he's had to deal with. But great wasn't enough when he was walking gingerly and stumbling over his words. The drip-drip-drip of bad stories and defections was torturous. When he finally pulled the plug, I was relieved.

I agree. It's amazing what Biden accomplished with a razor thin Senate majority that included obstructionists Manchin and Sinema in the caucus. But if the madman wins in November, Biden's legacy might sadly be reduced to having been the President who futilely delayed the destruction of America's democracy by four years.

If you thought Biden was going to beat Trump in a debate, well, that just shows how well the media and his advisors have been pulling the wool over all our eyes.

Glad it's over though. Wish Republicans could have dumped their nominee too.

One argument I have been seeing in the dark corners of the Internet is that Kamala is being "anointed" and they need an "open convention" for "democracy" - I don't buy that nonsense at all. It is too late for the people to vote. At best, you can let less than 5k delegated vote, but to what end? The people already chose Biden in the primary knowing that she was on his ticket and thereby consenting to her taking over if he couldn't run. He also endorsed her - do we think the people who voted for Biden really prefer the delegates to choose a replacement or do they want Biden to do so?

Now, can you explain the coconut emoji thing??

I agree, but "the people" didn't really choose Biden in the primaries. They weren't really given any viable alternatives.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 10:25 am

Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 10:08 am
I think Joe Biden has been a great president given what he's had to deal with. But great wasn't enough when he was walking gingerly and stumbling over his words. The drip-drip-drip of bad stories and defections was torturous. When he finally pulled the plug, I was relieved.

I agree. It's amazing what Biden accomplished with a razor thin Senate majority that included obstructionists Manchin and Sinema in the caucus. But if the madman wins in November, Biden's legacy might sadly be reduced to having been the President who futilely delayed the destruction of America's democracy by four years.

Your obsession with Manchin drives me nuts. Unlike say Sinema, or your Jill Stein thing, which makes some sense, there is no universe where a DIFFERENT Democrat wins West Virginia. Democrats should be thankful for Joe Manchin in the Senate if all he ever did for them was vote for Schumer rather than McConnell.

You are basically in bed with the Republicans who hate on Susan Collins.

nymr83 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 10:36 am

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 10:25 am

Lefty Specialist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 10:08 am
I think Joe Biden has been a great president given what he's had to deal with. But great wasn't enough when he was walking gingerly and stumbling over his words. The drip-drip-drip of bad stories and defections was torturous. When he finally pulled the plug, I was relieved.

I agree. It's amazing what Biden accomplished with a razor thin Senate majority that included obstructionists Manchin and Sinema in the caucus. But if the madman wins in November, Biden's legacy might sadly be reduced to having been the President who futilely delayed the destruction of America's democracy by four years.

Your obsession with Manchin drives me nuts. Unlike say Sinema, or your Jill Stein thing, which makes some sense, there is no universe where a DIFFERENT Democrat wins West Virginia. Democrats should be thankful for Joe Manchin in the Senate if all he ever did for them was vote for Schumer rather than McConnell.

I totally agree with you and have said it here before many times over. It would have been wonderful if Manchin was as liberal as, say, Ted Kennedy. But that kind of Senatorial candidate would get annihilated in a WV general election. Still, I get to bitch about Manchin anyways, just because I can. And what I wrote about Biden being able to accomplish what he did with what he had still holds.

Well, there's a lot to bitch about with Manchin. There was a much better climate bill (Build Back Better) that he singlehandedly torpedoed. The Inflation Reduction Act was much smaller and only passed because there was a bribe to West Virginia coal interests buried in it. Yes he voted for Schumer and for most of Biden's judges, for which I'm grateful, but he's a bit of a prick who relishes being 'the man' in a closely divided Senate.

Absolutely, he's the only Democrat who could have won West Virginia for the last 2 cycles. And there'll always be a 'Manchin/Sinema type' who enjoys playing both sides against each other. But that doesn't make him any less annoying.

He's getting out because even he wasn't going to win this time around. West Virginia is ruby-red these days.

West Virginia isn't just "red" it's ORANGE - The "Trumpiest" state in the nation even if not the most Republican.

Makes it all the more remarkable that Manchin hung on there so long.

As far as extracting benefits for his state to agree to legislation - well, isn't that his job?

Look, I'm not naive , but it's jarring to hear a sitting congresswoman say shit like this.

nymr83 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 11:25 am West Virginia isn't just "red" it's ORANGE - The "Trumpiest" state in the nation even if not the most Republican.

Obviously, you've never read much about Tennessee. They expelled three state reps out of the state legislature for trying to bring up a discussion about gun violence.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tennessee- ... ppens-now/

It is the home of the Scopes trial. For 40 years, the teaching of evolution was illegal.
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-butler-act-1224753



Later

nymr83 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 10:33 am If you thought Biden was going to beat Trump in a debate, well, that just shows how well the media and his advisors have been pulling the wool over all our eyes.

Odd, I thought the point of a nomination was to be a good President, not a TV star. And Biden DID beat trump in the debate. Nothing trump said was true, real, convincing. it was all lies and propaganda. how is that winning? what are we measuring?

money of course.

And of course a real democrat (never mind an actual liberal) could've won in Manchin's seat..provided republicans hadn't been cheating for decades in setting up elections, and districts, racist voter restriction laws, fighting universal registrations, etc.

There are no red states. Only states with thumbs more on the scale than others.

You can wargames politics all you want, but it's not wrong to point out how extremely fucked and non-democratic said system is. It's why the best we can hope for is conservatives like Biden and Harris that are least reasonably compassionate people. What a low bar!

TheNextMetsManager wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:22 pm
There are no red states. Only states with thumbs more on the scale than others.

Oh, there are red states. Some, so red you could go blind staring at them. Mississipi doesn't need to cheat to send a GOP Senator to DC. It's just that it shouldn't matter whether a particular State is red or blue. If we elected our Presidents according to popular vote instead of through our absurd Electoral College, if there was proportional rather than equal representation in the Senate, if our Constitution wasn't cemented into a time when its drafters had to write it by candlelight because neither electricity nor the light bulb were yet invented, things would be more just, politically.

When you invite Elon Musk as a seat filler for a congressional hearing and tear gas protesters, it's going real well.

https://x.com/MohammedKhaderr/status/18 ... 3651435714

There are some seriously red states. Some have highway signs
when you cross the border...

WELCOME TO ARKANTUCKSEE
Don't bring none of your New York or California
bullshit here or you may be shot (or worse)!
YA'LL COME BACK NOW, YA HEAR

kcmets wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 3:30 pm There are some seriously red states. Some have highway signs
when you cross the border...

WELCOME TO ARKANTUCKSEE
Don't bring none of your New York or California
bullshit here or you may be shot (or worse)!
YA'LL COME BACK NOW, YA HEAR

Arkansas has about 2.3 million adults.

760k of them voted for trump in 2020.

so like 33%.

It has the highest absentee ballot rejection percentage.

in 2020

229k or so democrats voted in the primary.

246k voted in the republican primary.


And these numbers obviously skew more and more Democratic by the year, since younger people skew towards democrats.

Imagine everyone in Arkansas was automatically registered to vote and could vote easily?

It's satire. Relax, set a spell...

So's this:


Later

Harris Narrows Gap Against Trump, Times/Siena Poll Finds

In a survey taken after President Biden stepped aside, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are locked in a tight race separated by a single percentage point among likely voters.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/25/us/p ... trump.html

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any post-convention bump. That could be (a) the candidate switch on the other side stealing their thunder, (b) a convention that inspired nobody, (c) that his convention bump came a few days early in the form of the shooting, or (d) some combination of all of those.

The former president's polling flatlining through his VP announcement and his convention certainly is an opening for his opponents.

Edgy MD wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 6:01 pm Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any post-convention bump. That could be (a) the candidate switch on the other side stealing their thunder, (b) a convention that inspired nobody, (c) that his convention bump came a few days early in the form of the shooting, or (d) some combination of all of those.

The former president's polling flatlining through his VP announcement and his convention certainly is an opening for his opponents.

also (e) everyone knows Trump and has an opinion of him already, there are only a certain number of people willing to vote for him in the first place and he might have hit that cap already.

I certainly hope so. I have some friends from back on Long Island who were claiming to be done with him after the "cancel articles of the Constitution" comment, but I suspect that they still drink from the teatx of FOX News and other (online) propaganda outlets, and when they're done drinking down a false narrative of "migrant crime" and things Vice President Harris never said, I fear they will run back into the former president's crazy arms.

The anti-Harris bullshit machine is just getting started, and in the age of AI, new depths are waiting to be plunged.

But what do I know? I'm afraid of the ghost of George Steinbrenner. That can't be healthy.

Trump telling Christians that if they vote for him in 2024 that they won't ever have to vote again. That's full on nuts. And watch the GOP politicians make pathetic excuses for that too "Oh it's just Trump being Trump," as in, yeah, the guy who did his best to subvert the last election winding up on the mound.

I'm throwing this out there now - there's NO CHANCE that Trump debates Harris. He's a coward if ever there was one and he knows he can't throw that same nonsense up there against an adult who's got both of their chopsticks still in the noodles.

Fman99 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 5:51 pm Trump telling Christians that if they vote for him in 2024 that they won't ever have to vote again. That's full on nuts. And watch the GOP politicians make pathetic excuses for that too "Oh it's just Trump being Trump," as in, yeah, the guy who did his best to subvert the last election winding up on the mound.

I'm throwing this out there now - there's NO CHANCE that Trump debates Harris. He's a coward if ever there was one and he knows he can't throw that same nonsense up there against an adult who's got both of their chopsticks still in the noodles.

https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.bsky.s ... dwyeu6qw2z