Presidential Debate Thread

[Frayed Knot]

Rough analogies to be sure, but the point is that all those projects went ahead, despite reservations and changed situations, because nobody wanted to go against group think and admit that they were stupid ideas. 'Gee, if we changed course now think of all that time we'd have wasted planning this!'

On another note, I can't even believe this conversation. The other's guy's a sociopath who commits an outrage every single fucking day.

Which is why you have to beat him and I don't believe clueless Joe is putting their best foot forward at this point.
There have to be a bunch of Dems who think the same but everyone has played 'don't rock the boat' and 'let's pretend everything's fine' this entire time and now a shit show on national TV has those noted bastions of right wing thought like the New York Times and the Atlantic Journal-Constitution calling for him to do the right thing and get out. And I just don't believe that a change can't be done now simply because it should have been done last week or last month or two years ago.

[Lefty Specialist]

No elected Democrat has said a word on the record. There are a lot of 'anonymous Democrats' who are saying he should be replaced, but wouldn't dare expose themselves.

He had a bad night. But you don't upend everything because he had a bad night. All told, he's had a pretty good four years compared to the previous guy. I don't wake up every morning wondering 'what the hell did he do now?'

Yes, he's old. I get it. But I don't see how dumping him makes anything better. It'd be a civil war inside the Democratric party just months before an election, and the odds are good that the winner of any last minute contest would be Kamala Harris. The delegates elected in the primaries were committed to the Biden-Harris ticket; there'd be a lot of pressure to stick with her on the first ballot. There'd also be a lot of pressure from the party establishment to keep others out to avoid a shitshow. Imagine Kamala versus Trump, and then tell me dumping Joe is a good idea.


You don't set your house on fire to keep warm. The Times can pound sand.

[Edgy MD]

The idea that something is necessarily a bad idea because it would have been a better idea a year ago isn't a very convincing argument to me either.

A lot of things would have been better to decide a year ago. Or ten years ago or a hundred. But here is where they are.

[batmagadanleadoff]

This is such a shame. The media's laser focused on Biden's shaky performance. It was shaky, but it was honest, in good faith and with the best intentions.

The other guy unleashed a torrent, a fire hose stream of lies, projectile vomiting outrageous incredulous bullshit all over the place. And that's the guy who's supposed to be the next President?

[metsmarathon]

Yeah it’s kinda crazy that the headline is always that Biden is old when the real outrage is the bullshit nonsense and terror spouted from the other podium.

[Lefty Specialist]

This is such a shame. The media's laser focused on Biden's shaky performance. It was shaky, but it was honest, in good faith and with the best intentions.

And he did it while he had a cold, which is apparently an unforgiveable sin.

[Lefty Specialist]

The idea that something is necessarily a bad idea because it would have been a better idea a year ago isn't a very convincing argument to me either.

A lot of things would have been better to decide a year ago. Or ten years ago or a hundred. But here is where they are.

Don't misunderstand me. I would not have wanted to see Biden drop out a year ago. I'm just saying that it would not have been as enormously disruptive as it would be 6 weeks before the convention.

You know somebody who'd love to see Biden drop out? Vladimir Putin.

[Frayed Knot]

I think I know someone who'd Not want to see Biden drop out? D. J. Trump


I'll just throw this out since we're basically going around in circles at this point.
If the power brokers in the D party didn't prepare some sort of 'What if?' plan in the event that their 81 y/o President
started showing significant signs of mental and/or physical decline, then shame on them.




btw, the Philadelphia Inquirer has called for Trump to drop out of the race due to the volume of lies spouted in the first debate.
However neither he, nor his party, have any intention or incentive to do so.

[Edgy MD]

I think the former president would take a three or four victory laps if President Biden dropped out. Not only would he get the mocking triumph of defeating his rival without a single ballot being cast, but he'd get to the icing on the cake of having predicted this at one time or another.

If the party turns to Vice President Harris, well, former President Trump's team already has plenty of negative messaging built up about her, and a four-year campaign building up her negatives. If they bypass her, he gets to take two more victory laps. He did one debate and destroyed the entire ticket!

None of that is to necessarily suggest that a replacement strategy isn't an option, but that's certainly a downside. It'll certainly be a win for the other side least initially, whether or not it is ultimately.

Does anybody have a particular person in mind, by the way? Senator Cory Booker? Congresswoman Kathleen Clark? Former Congressman John Yarmuth? George Clooney? Mark Cuban? The Rock? Michelle Obama?

To step into that breach, it'd have to be someone with charisma and poise out the waz.

[Lefty Specialist]

Totally agree. Just the mention of it has Trump taking victory laps. And he learned an important lesson. He can lie as much as he wants, even about easily disprovable things (post-birth abortion?) and get away with it. All anybody is talking about is how old and frail Biden is.

So in typical Trump fashion, he'll double down. He'll get more unhinged and the New York Times will still treat him as a Very Serious Person because they want the clicks.

Kathleen Clark is a smart person. But the governors are the chief competitors to Kamala, either now or in 2028.

[metsmarathon]

fuck it. harris/cheney.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I have no idea what the right thing to do is. What I do know is that Biden's debate showing was an unmitigated disaster. Because nobody ever wins the battle against aging. Not even Babe Ruth, who, as everybody now knows, sucked at the end of his career. And it'll get worse for Biden, never better. Just like it got worse for Babe Ruth. And everybody else who ever lived. Babe Ruth sucked. And retired. Then he got cancer. Then he died.

[kcmets]

fuck it. harris/cheney.

Ya know, let's post that in BIGPURPLE and see what it looks like...
Harris
Cheney
TABA24

[Edgy MD]

At least he threw out a ticket.

I'm not sure anybody has any idea what to do.

[metsmarathon]

fuck it. harris/cheney.

Ya know, let's post that in BIGPURPLE and see what it looks like...
Harris
Cheney
TABA24

take america back again?

[Benjamin Grimm]

The names I'm hearing most often are Newsom and Whitmer.

Newsom has already has his sights set on 2028 for a while now.

[MFS62]

The names I'm hearing most often are Newsom and Whitmer.

Newsom has already has his sights set on 2028 for a while now.

I'm also hearing Josh Shapiro, Governor of Pennsylvania as a good, possibly the best, candidate. But the party may be waiting to run him in 2028 (assuming we will have elections then).
Newsome has a lot of exploitable baggage in California, to high taxes, increasing crime and a ton of woke (whatever they say that is) legislation. Things like that would be a disaster in a national election.

Later

[Lefty Specialist]

Biden. There's your candidate. He's not leaving and no one's going to make him.

And he's got the best perspective on this rogue Supreme Court because they just gave him power he doesn't want and thinks nobody should have. This decision is the best thing that could happen to him as a candidate, even though it's disastrous for the country. Because he can say, "I could put my opponent in Gitmo. I won't, but he might."

[Edgy MD]

I get it, but I was asking those who were suggesting a replacement.

[metirish]

NYT just dropped this


Biden Told Ally That He Is Weighing Whether to Continue in the Race

The president’s conversation is the first indication that he is seriously considering whether he can recover after a devastating performance on the debate stage in Atlanta on Thursday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/p ... roid-share

[Benjamin Grimm]

Good. The reports that Biden will never step aside remind me of the reports that the Indians and the Redskins would never change their names.

[nymr83]

The names I'm hearing most often are Newsom and Whitmer.

Newsom has already has his sights set on 2028 for a while now.

I'm also hearing Josh Shapiro, Governor of Pennsylvania as a good, possibly the best, candidate. But the party may be waiting to run him in 2028 (assuming we will have elections then).
Newsome has a lot of exploitable baggage in California, to high taxes, increasing crime and a ton of woke (whatever they say that is) legislation. Things like that would be a disaster in a national election.

Later

Shapiro/Whitmer/Pritzker can win votes from the people whose votes are actually up for grabs.

A Newsom candidacy is like hitting a homerun - or allowing one - while up or down by ten runs in the 9th inning. Win by more votes in California/New York and lose by more votes in Texas/Florida, who cares? If you are going to go through all the trouble of replacing Biden - and giving Trump weeks of "free reign" as the only true candidate in the race - do it right, or don't do it at all.

[ashie62]

The vibe I'm getting from CNBC is that Biden is in deep discussions with party leaders

HARRIS /SHAPIRO

[Benjamin Grimm]

I believe that he's in deep discussions. But is it because he's considering his options, or because he's trying to convince his colleagues to back him?

[Edgy MD]

I read that Times report, and it's still fudgy with regard to which Democrats are urging him to step down, who this ally is that's leaking, and most importantly, who would be likely to take over the campaign.

Because "names I'm hearing" isn't really convincing to me. Who does anybody actually believe has a better chance than him at turning the ship around?

The names I've thrown out above are the best I'm coming up with as I scour my brain, but I can't say I have greater hope for any of them than I have for President Biden.

Harris/Shapiro? Really? Selling that ticket will be easier?