Presidential Debate Thread

[MFS62]

Biden's already at the age where he's one doctor's visit away from learning that he will die soon. Everybody dies. But it's extremely likelier to happen to somebody who's Biden's age. And the mental and physical decline is just as terrible. He might be shitting in his pants without even knowing it a month from now.

Thanks for reminding me what I have to look forward to in the next year or two.
Later

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, I want to see how he does in this Stephanopoulis interview.

Kamala's the only one that can access the Biden/Harris money. Everybody else would have to start from zero. And bypassing a woman of color at the convention in favor of a white man or woman would destroy turnout among the most loyal of Democratic voters, black women.

The barrage of 'inside stories' about Joe's mental state seem just a little weird. The Biden administration has been practically leak-proof up to this, so I'm a little suspicious.

But anyway back to the Non-Biden possibilities. Kamala, who I like, would get destroyed by Trump. I hate to say that but it's probably true. America is not ready for a woman president, and having a Black president the first time is what created Trump. She faces a double-whammy. The only possible way to save her would be for Biden to immediately resign and actually make her the president. Showing she can actually do the job would be helpful. I know it's only a few months, but it'd help.

There are other candidates. I just got an e-mail from Gavin Newsom supporting Biden. He, or Gretchen Whitmer, or Josh Shapiro or Andy Beshear or any other Democrat would start from zero. No campaign apparatus, no money, no nothing, with an election in 4 months. Most Americans couldn't pick Gretchen Whitmer out of a lineup today. Trump and Biden are universally known. They'd have to win the nomination at the convention, which would be a bloody process.

Trump must be defeated. What he wants to do to this country would be devastating to our freedoms and liberties. He's got a Supreme Court that will back him to the hilt. If he wins, America will become unrecognizable, and it'll happen fast.

I want desperately to see Biden fight back, to get mad but not crazy, and to show that he still has what it takes. Because with all his faults, he's the best person to beat Trump. But I want, no, I NEED him to show me he can. All the media handwringing and Democratic bedwetting will go away if he just takes charge. They've had a week to do that and they haven't, which worries me.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Trump must be defeated. What he wants to do to this country would be devastating to our freedoms and liberties. He's got a Supreme Court that will back him to the hilt. If he wins, America will become unrecognizable, and it'll happen fast.

It's even scarier than that. Dems need to win by a landslide. If Trump loses a close election, this SCOTUS will pull a Bush v. Gore II and hand the election to Trump under whatever insane premise Trump uses to get to SCOTUS in the first place.

And I don't see a landslide coming.

The GOP has commandeered the judiciary while the Dems were literally sleepwalking through that issue. If you have the courts, you have everything. By the time the Dems figured this out, it was way too late. People think that our separation of powers functions like a perfectly efficient game of paper, rock scissors. It doesn't. Nothing tops SCOTUS. It has the last word on everything. And it will annihilate whatever legislative fixes the Dems might pass.

[Edgy MD]

I guess we're not anonymous anymore, as Senator Mark Warner is apparently publicly taking on the mantle of the head the resignation/intervention caucus, despite this evening's defiant interview.

[nymr83]

I guess we're not anonymous anymore, as Senator Mark Warner is apparently publicly taking on the mantle of the head the resignation/intervention caucus, despite this evening's defiant interview.

This evening's pre-recorded 20 minute "prompted speech", you mean? Biden would need a long live and unscripted appearance to convince me he is not mentally unfit at this point. Nothing short of a coherent debate performance against Agent Orange is going to undo the damage and his next scheduled chance at that isn't until September when it is probably TOO LATE if he screws up again. If Biden is serious about staying in the race, he should take Trump up on his offer to debate him again soon - otherwise it is time to go!

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, it wasn't great, but it was miles better than the debate. Stephanopoulis didn't let him off the hook easy, but Biden was a little more feisty and defiant. As for screwing up some details, Trump does that constantly in addition to all his lies. Oh, and he's a convicted criminal. No one's saying a peep about him dropping out.

The problem here is that Biden obviously doesn't want to go. Pushing him out could get very ugly. And the only realistic alternative is Kamala, for a multitude of reasons.

[metirish]

Mike weighs in

[Edgy MD]

I guess we're not anonymous anymore, as Senator Mark Warner is apparently publicly taking on the mantle of the head the resignation/intervention caucus, despite this evening's defiant interview.

This evening's pre-recorded 20 minute "prompted speech", you mean? Biden would need a long live and unscripted appearance to convince me he is not mentally unfit at this point. Nothing short of a coherent debate performance against Agent Orange is going to undo the damage and his next scheduled chance at that isn't until September when it is probably TOO LATE if he screws up again. If Biden is serious about staying in the race, he should take Trump up on his offer to debate him again soon - otherwise it is time to go!

I meant what I meant. I wasn't impressed by his performance either. But it was defiant and it was an interview.

I'm not asking you to buy it.

I certainly agree that we would be best served by seeing him perform under pressure, soon, at length, and unscripted. I don't think we'd like what we see, but hopefully he'd either he'll perform well and thrive, or perform poorly and get the message.

[kcmets]

"Fuck you and fuck off on your challenge to face me in another
debate. Can you even spell debate? Have you ever debated anyone
or anything in your entire life? You want more face time on national
television so you can spew 50 more lies to your sycophantic lemmings.
Every god damn fucking word out of your mouth is a lie. Did I mention
fuck you and fuck off?" -- Best, Sleepy Joe Biden

[Benjamin Grimm]

No one's saying a peep about him (Trump) dropping out.

That's because he appears to be winning.

[Edgy MD]

"Fuck you and fuck off on your challenge to face me in another
debate. Can you even spell debate? Have you ever debated anyone
or anything in your entire life? You want more face time on national
television so you can spew 50 more lies to your sycophantic lemmings.
Every god damn fucking word out of your mouth is a lie. Did I mention
fuck you and fuck off?" -- Best, Sleepy Joe Biden

Marathon already has my vote, but I think you've demonstrated that you'd make an excellent running mate.

I like lemmings, though. Look at this guy.

[kcmets]

I have too many skeletons in my closet (more than Schumer, even)
to ever run for anything higher than where my nose is pressed up
against this glass ceiling.

But thanks. MAMA - Make America Mets Again!

[Bob Alpacadaca]

It was too little, too late. He needed to do one of those prime time press conferences where you stand there and answer every question, even the stupid ones from hostile reporters, to assure people. Also, he needed to do it a week ago.

[batmagadanleadoff]

This guy is the luckiest fuck that ever lived in the whole history of the world. Presidential immunity. Hillary's "emails" and an 11th hour announcement by James Comey and the FBI that moved the needle on the 2016 Presidential election in his favor. And now, months before another Presidential election and suddenly, Joe Biden is going senile right in front of America's eyes. This scumbag must've made a deal with the Devil. The only thing that's holding me back from believing that, the only thing, is that insane, batshit neon orange wind and hurricane resistant comb-over on the top of the scumbag's head. Because if he truly did make a deal with the Devil, he'd have a head of hair like Jacob deGrom's.

[whippoorwill]

Used to have

[Lefty Specialist]

Understand the media's thinking here

1) Go against Biden and Biden wins: no consequences
2) Go against Biden and Trump wins: rewards for 'good' behavior
3) Go against Trump and Trump wins: punishment for 'bad' behavior
4) Go against Trump and Trump loses: minor consequences

The incentive structure is baked in. Imagine what Trump can do with his 'official acts' power if you're a media conglomerate. He can sic the SEC or IRS or FCC on you, he can block your mergers (as he already did with AT&T), he can make your life difficult in so many ways. This is how Viktor Orban has eliminated dissent in Hungary, and don't think for a minute Trump won't get right to work. You think NBCUniversal won't suddenly decide that a Rachel Maddow or a Lawrence O'Donnell or a Nicolle Wallace are more trouble than they're worth? Or those liberal troublemakers at the Times or the Post won't get their walking papers or reassigned to the obituary section?

Notice how quiet Trump has been about Biden lately? He's letting others do his work for him. And the media is happy to run with it because it's good for business.

This is not to say that Biden doesn't have problems. He does. He needs to prove to the American people that he's all there and can handle the job. Donald Trump has no such burden. He's already publicly mused about a military treason trial for Liz Cheney. The media response? Crickets. It's the incentive structure.

[nymr83]

No one's saying a peep about him (Trump) dropping out.

That's because he appears to be winning.

He does appear to be winning. He also does not appear to be in serious cognative decline (yet, still a big risk for 4 years)

Trump's unfitness to be president is moral, not mental.

Also - Trump only cares about Trump, so even if he were mentally or physically unfit, he wouldn't give a shit.

Biden on the other hand might care about more than Biden. He might care that someone else has a better chance to defeat Trump, and so he might be convinced to do the right thing and drop out.

Convincing Trump would be a waste of breath.

[Edgy MD]

I don't know what indicts President Biden as being in cognitive decline that somehow doesn't indict former President Trump. He's a walking string of incoherent nonsense.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'll take a diminished Biden over an empowered Trump every single day of the week. I doubt though, that there are enough voters who think like this.

Biden's disastrous debate showing is not fixable. His recent attempts to fix it are falling flat and making things worse, as far as I can think it. If he drops out, that's a whole 'nuther can of problems on top of this latest shitshow.

This is a disaster. And SCOTUS just made it easier for Trump to win by essentially taking all of the pending trials off of the table. It's another Bush v Gore decision in that it's corrupt, and total partisan hackery. That decision will never be used to benefit a Dem President. And the whole idea of the lower courts now having to decide what is and isn't an official Presidential act is just Kabuki theater. In the end, that too will end up on SCOTUS's desk and this SCOTUS will decide what is and isn't official. In Trump's favor, of course.

The battle for the courts was lost when Trump beat Hillary and then hammered home when the GOP rammed through RBG's replacement weeks before the last Presidential Election. It'll be like this for the rest of my life. The Dems will never get, through the normal course of politics, the will and the votes needed to fundamentaly change the judiciary. It's a fantasy. Eventually, more drastic action will be needed. But whenever the good guys finally resort to drastic measures, it's always because they're already in a world of shit. The good guys can only react.

I fear the very worst.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't know what indicts President Biden as being in cognitive decline that somehow doesn't indict former President Trump. He's a walking string of incoherent nonsense.

Absolutely.

[nymr83]

I don't know what indicts President Biden as being in cognitive decline that somehow doesn't indict former President Trump. He's a walking string of incoherent nonsense.

Absolutely.

No DECLINE there, just business as usual.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I want to get a "Lord Almighty" costume and go to the White House.

[Edgy MD]

I tend to doubt that there's been no decline for former President Trump.

As far as business as usual, I contend that President Biden has spouted shredded syntax and garbled thoughts a-plenty over the years. He's gotten mostly a pass for whatever reason. I've tended to ascribe it to a neurodivergency linked to his stammering condition and the related adaptations that he has worked with, along with occasional over-looseness in certain situations (a comfortably friendly audience, a rush of adrenaline, a lack of sleep ...). But he's said some embarrassing stuff a lot for a long time, and the party looks really foolish allowing themselves to be blindsided by this.

Looking worse at expressing himself under the additional effects of age (slow response time, searching for a word ... I'd be lying if I said I've never been there) doesn't necessarily mean to me his ability to strategize, execute and even lead is compromised. But it does mean that he's compromised as the face and voice of the nation. To me, frankly, he always has been, but obviously it's really out there now.

They could have been pushing Vice President Harris forward for many occasions for years. They could have engineered a resignation. For whatever reason they did not.

So, I'm not particularly concerned that he's doomed as a capable president, but I'm very concerned that he's doomed as a candidate. And maybe the best way to convince the nation that this unpopular vice president — that they've hidden in the background and has an historically low approval rating — is indeed presidential material, is for him to resign and make her president right now, running as an incumbent.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I don't know what indicts President Biden as being in cognitive decline that somehow doesn't indict former President Trump. He's a walking string of incoherent nonsense.

Absolutely.

Please. In normal times, this cocksucker's political career would've been over eight years ago the moment he insulted a Gold-Star family. Or right after the release of the Access Hollywood grab 'em by the pussy tapes.

[whippoorwill]

You fellows seem to forgot there are reams of people that think that is either funny or absolutely normal behavior