Are the Mets Just Bad

[batmagadanleadoff]

But bottom line is that if Manfred hadn't watered down the playoffs without complementing with expansion, the Mets wouldn't seriously be thinking they were in it.

That's true and I totally agree. But the playoffs are watered down, and baseball now is, I think, a shitshow. But in this shitshow, the Mets are a contender. It is what it is. If baseball was the shitshow that it is today in 1986, the juggernaut Mets who had the best hitting and the best pitching might not have won the WS because of the extra short series that they would've had to have won. You don't need to assemble a team that on paper, could win 95 or 100 games anymore. That, by the way, is the real tax against Steve Cohen and the few other very extremely deep-pocketed teams.

[CitiFieldPornRoom]

But bottom line is that if Manfred hadn't watered down the playoffs without complementing with expansion, the Mets wouldn't seriously be thinking they were in it.

That's true and I totally agree. But the playoffs are watered down, and baseball now is, I think, a shitshow. But in this shitshow, the Mets are a contender. It is what it is. If baseball was the shitshow that it is today in 1986, the juggernaut Mets who had the best hitting and the best pitching might not have won the WS because of the extra short series that they would've had to have won. You don't need to assemble a team that on paper, could win 95 or 100 games anymore. That, by the way, is the real tax against Steve Cohen and the few other very extremely deep-pocketed teams.

some tax considering just a few more bucks (never mind a few more wisely spent bucks) would likely have them in much better position.

but hey, they're raising prices next year, so that'll net some money.

[The Hot Corner]

They are basically a flawed team. They have pretty good power, but far too few hitter's that can be counted on to deliver with RISP. The starting pitching lacks an ace (w/ Senga out), Severino and Manaea have been pretty good, but the rest of the rotation is too inconsistent or unreliable. The bullpen has been disappointing. Even if by some miracle they made the playoffs (which I really don't see happening), I would expect them to be knocked out in the first round. They just don't have the starting rotation to match most good teams in a short series.

[Edgy MD]

They're all flawed, this year more than most.

It comes down to who is playing their best baseball at the right time.

[Edgy MD]

Mets starters have the second-best ERA in the league over the second half, and amazingly, they've thrown about 15 more innings than any other team.

[metirish]

Promotion and relagation now!

[G-Fafif]

There always seem to be two Mets in any given lineup battling a 3-for-30 slump, yet here we are where we are.

[kcmets]

They kinda suck, except when they don't.

I expect a roller coaster ride in September. I relish this
ride, wind flapping through my curly locks...

[batmagadanleadoff]

They don't suck. I've said this several times already but the Mets are no longer the team that got off to a dreadful start and took about two months to find themselves. They're now one of the best teams in baseball. And ever since Vientos and Martinez began playing every day, the Mets have been playing better baseball than just about every other team in the majors. Better than the Dodgers. Better than the Yankees. Better than the Braves. Ironically, about the only teams that have been better than the Mets since they foiund themselves are two of the three teams they're chasing for Wild Card spots -- the Padres and the DBacks.

The Mets now have an MVP candidtate -- Lindor. And Vientos -- a player who rate-wise, has been hitting like an MVP all season long. Vientos won't win the MVP award even if he continues to hit at the rate he's hitting at for the rest of the season because he missed too much playing time while down in Syracuse, but he should get down ballot MVP votes. And now, suddenly, the Mets have two starters, Peterson and Manaea, that have been pitching like Cy Young award candidates for several starts. Manaea is in the top 10 of virtually every important pitching statistic. If the pitching holds up, if Senga returns, good things are possible.

[batmagadanleadoff]

They don't suck. I've said this several times already but the Mets are no longer the team that got off to a dreadful start and took about two months to find themselves. They're now one of the best teams in baseball. And ever since Vientos and Martinez began playing every day, the Mets have been playing better baseball than just about every other team in the majors. Better than the Dodgers. Better than the Yankees. Better than the Braves. Ironically, about the only teams that have been better than the Mets since they foiund themselves are two of the three teams they're chasing for Wild Card spots -- the Padres and the DBacks.

The Mets now have an MVP candidtate -- Lindor. And Vientos -- a player who rate-wise, has been hitting like an MVP all season long. Vientos won't win the MVP award even if he continues to hit at the rate he's hitting at for the rest of the season because he missed too much playing time while down in Syracuse, but he should get down ballot MVP votes. And now, suddenly, the Mets have two starters, Peterson and Manaea, that have been pitching like Cy Young award candidates for several starts. Manaea is in the top 10 of virtually every important pitching statistic. If the pitching holds up, if Senga returns, good things are possible.

MLB records since June 1:



Since June 1st, the Mets have been on a 100 win pace, over 162 games.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And if they can keep up that pace the rest of the way, they'll finish with 89 wins, which has a pretty good chance, I think, of getting them into the postseason.

[Fman99]

The Mets are good

[batmagadanleadoff]

They don't suck. I've said this several times already but the Mets are no longer the team that got off to a dreadful start and took about two months to find themselves. They're now one of the best teams in baseball. And ever since Vientos and Martinez began playing every day, the Mets have been playing better baseball than just about every other team in the majors. Better than the Dodgers. Better than the Yankees. Better than the Braves. Ironically, about the only teams that have been better than the Mets since they foiund themselves are two of the three teams they're chasing for Wild Card spots -- the Padres and the DBacks.

The Mets now have an MVP candidtate -- Lindor. And Vientos -- a player who rate-wise, has been hitting like an MVP all season long. Vientos won't win the MVP award even if he continues to hit at the rate he's hitting at for the rest of the season because he missed too much playing time while down in Syracuse, but he should get down ballot MVP votes. And now, suddenly, the Mets have two starters, Peterson and Manaea, that have been pitching like Cy Young award candidates for several starts. Manaea is in the top 10 of virtually every important pitching statistic. If the pitching holds up, if Senga returns, good things are possible.

MLB records since June 1:



Since June 1st, the Mets have been on a 100 win pace, over 162 games.

The Mets have the best ERA in all of baseball since mid June.

Also, they have four every-day players (Vientos, Lindor, Alonso and Martinez) that have OPS+ numbers over 120, and a fifth, Nimmo, who is almost there.

Pay attention. Right now, the Mets are about as good as any other team in baseball and could go toe-to-toe with anyone. That 100 win pace that they're on is meaningful. That's as many games as the 1969 squad won.

It took the Mets about two months to "find themselves" this season. If they could've played the way they've been playing since June right from the start, they'd have the best record in the majors and (obviously) be in position for a first round bye.

[Centerfield]

It’s a really interesting point. I tend to discount any argument that starts with “If you disregard [time when team was bad]….”

But you’re right. This team is not the team that started terribly. That team didn’t have Martinez, Vientos, and Iglesias. Even Torrens. Nido/Narvaez are gone. So are Houser and Diekman and a bunch of other ineffective relievers.

The downside, I guess, is that Nimmo, Lindor and McNeil can play as poorly in September as they did in April. But even if one of them slump there should be enough production in the rest of the lineup.

And if Nunez/Scott/Senga/SRF return, our pitching could get even better.

[Edgy MD]

It's funny, but I already have Christian Scott's time in the rotation tucked in the "Did that even happen?" file, right next to that time James Franco and Anne Hathaway co-hosted the Oscars.

If I think about it hard, I'd guess he was there for a month or so, making four or five starts, but I'm checking now, and he started nine games.

[Benjamin Grimm]

He was the Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month in May!

[batmagadanleadoff]

It’s a really interesting point. I tend to discount any argument that starts with “If you disregard [time when team was bad]….”

Me, too. Always. But maybe this year's Mets team is an exception. Who the hell knows? As I was writing the posts just above, I was thinking to myself that now that I'm writing these posts, the Mets will probably collapse and play .250 ball the rest of the way because that's baseball for you.

Who the hell knows anything?

But this is a damn good Mets team.

[Frayed Knot]

The quote below is from and IGT thread but I thought the answer fit better here:

Some day, the Mets are gonna win a game and actually gain in the standings on one of the teams ahead of them.

Some day.

One of the things making it difficult for the Mets to pick up ground these days is that the NL is killing the AL in inter-league play lately.
The split favored the AL early in the season but that had balanced out by mid-year to the point where it was essentially even (AL +2) at the ASB.
Starting with the resumption on July 19 (48 days ago) the NL is a collective +39, so +37 for the year.

Gary didn't cite this directly last night but did say how the Red Sox keep losing (3-10 in their last 13) without losing touch w/the WC pack and
obviously it's for the same reason the Mets are having trouble gaining in the NL


P.S. NL is 86-56 since Aug 1st in IL games including 13-3 just through the first four days of September
So since Aug 1st the NL is playing like a 98-win team and the AL like a squad headed for a 64 win season
That's quite a split and one that's definitely not helping our side in this scuffle.

[Bob Alpacadaca]

I worry about the seven games with the Phillies.

[Edgy MD]

Gotta beat the best to be the best.

[Frayed Knot]

And, as per the chart above, the Mets are Nine games better than the Phillies over the last 3+ months
iow, their fans should be worried about those games at least as much as ours.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I worry about the seven games with the Phillies.

And three games with the Braves, which is an opportunity as well as a challenge.

But there are also nine games against losing teams: Toronto (67-74), Cincinnati (67-73), and Washington (62-77). If they can take a majority of those nine games, I'll accept four losses against the Phillies if it comes to that. Maybe even five.

[DocTee]

Per Howie Rose on X: "Since June 3 (81 games, or a half season worth) the Mets are 52-29. That's a 104-win pace, not a mirage. The Mets are good, get on board"

[Centerfield]

Atlanta has the softer schedule the rest of the way.

1 game vs. Rockies
3 games vs. Toronto
1 game vs. Reds
2 games @ Washington
4 games vs. LA Dodgers
3 games @ Reds
3 games @ Miami
3 games vs. Mets
3 games vs. KC

10 games vs. teams over .500, including 3 against the Mets. So basically, only 7 games where we can realistically expect any help. 3 of those being the last weekend.
13 games vs. teams under .500

By comparison, the Mets have 13 games vs. teams over .500, and only 9 games against teams under .500. That last weekend, we'll likely be playing a Milwaukee team that has clinched, but may be jockeying with Philly for a first round bye. The Braves will play KC, who may also have clinched the third WC but may be playing to avoid Baltimore/NYY.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Per Howie Rose on X: "Since June 3 (81 games, or a half season worth) the Mets are 52-29. That's a 104-win pace, not a mirage. The Mets are good, get on board"

Between Lindor unslumping himself and Vientos' promotion, it's as if the Mets replaced two rock-bottom dreadful players (early-season Lindor and Baty) with two MVP-caliber players.